From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Retrieving the "include" directory for Emacs Modules Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 03:00:53 +0200 Message-ID: <18869.4711936236$1734915715@news.gmane.org> References: <86ttbcdhwn.fsf@gnu.org> <865xnscj0s.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="554"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 23 02:01:47 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tPWpP-000AYU-18 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 02:01:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPWoq-0005u2-II; Sun, 22 Dec 2024 20:01:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPWoe-0005oy-Rv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2024 20:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([185.216.177.71]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPWob-00068j-K4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2024 20:01:00 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc7b-49.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.123.49]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 60799D0008E; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 03:00:55 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1734915655; bh=h36nqs/2W/rLRc9qmozA0HPcvXrz8A/U7TSB7LTDABs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=exUYr59SFIsHlc0FmhvN+7D8qya2n8PALBxMicukpNyQ+9BcYTjYhSuBB+TQcRnRp 80eN55ImvVNj2T5zGghWU1uAOg7e5zaLAHMfdv8dcjNT6X/betEf2wDh3VwfFi2RXZ rDdeJdG6RvFTpSHOhRorr7U1W8XjtAeFeysvcz3xTmYe46OwLdvXsd/F2/+HsNQoVh jTd1sOY9UENmmZneXbiG+6Gg5/5hMXqk2HC86grwXwPEtoIitdd8H4B8r7Nql8m1Fo amwg6syR9xiykWRjlvwpoXi+kcDXlNP2DxXQqRxj8bxnsrbRZIwPqB/PTxsXC2V903 n8NKzo/Ea3DEKcS0Xf4N3CxMrBdt1SfduwktQ7Qpvhs/njClfLaIaof7JUwBFUxDqU 735DO93BSf3jLPVYHRbD8nw2xKVH07apuZkQHCv2RgyOzXio2jrcRrsQwZOmq6hOR0 gb0FL1BTnjVX+dnruIs+S2MohZX+1T0MYYuUQa0EDTekxvT+HZHwVrfM3I0aRlZ0Xd J5EE8865GRN1ikZ2yBOGJjbc6x9e46JfxthWEZMJ61sbVRXBJNHD5QcIlMVxMnNGPR g3Re1WSkkdSBTAFoevkvhM8SUa4+lUswqmNYv20AL8lTeHD2WWltmlcAaaUA8I91zI MqDsBBesNt+1SmBKcCcy0740= In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 20 Dec 2024 10:41:08 -0500") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.216.177.71; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:148922 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> That's OK: the sole purpose of the change is to let ELPA packages call >>> `gcc` with such a `-I`! >> Which is wrong for Unix-like systems except on macOS. > > In which sense would it be wrong? > I can see an argument that such a `-I` would tend to be redundant on > systems where Emacs was "installed properly", but even on those systems > I fail to see what would be "wrong" about it. Headers don't go the Emacs data directory but in the include directory, usually /usr/include or /usr/local/include. >> It's debatable if packages should compile their native modules >> themselves > > IME it's what most users expect when they install (via `package.el`) > packages that come with a module, and it's also what most of the > developers of those packages want to offer to their users. > I have no intention to impose such an approach as the only supported way > to install a module, but I don't see what's debatable about providing > good support for packages to be able to compile their own modules. I don't think about imposing anything but keeping in mind that modules built arbitrary native code which can bring it's own issues especially when external dependencies come into play. Most packages which use native modules have to be adjusted to not built the native module for themselves or from where to load the native-module, some don't from load-path or no load-path for native modules (they are not installed to datadir). I wonder if there's something that could be learned from XEmacs approach of emodules which were very similar. Especially the idea of ellcc[1] sounds very good in this context. -- [1] http://xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/emodules_2.html#Using-ellcc