Mode line changes

Mode line changes

[Nick Roberts]

I realise there are no rules, but I think it's a good idea to post
general changes to the list first (apologies if they have and I missed
them).

I think:

1) Toggling line and column display should move to mouse-3 as it's a
   convention the this button is used for pull down menus where possible.

2) The size indication lighter shouldn't toggle line and column display
   because it has a different purpose.

3) The mode-line-highlight should not be applied to mode-line-remote because
   this face is used for `buttons' and no local-map (binding) has been added
   here.

-- 
Nick                                           http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob

Re: Mode line changes

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz> writes:

  > I realise there are no rules, but I think it's a good idea to post
  > general changes to the list first (apologies if they have and I missed
  > them).

Part of it was, long time ago and it did not get anywhere.  Part was
not, it was discussed with RMS and with Stefan and Yidong listening.

  > I think:
  > 
  > 1) Toggling line and column display should move to mouse-3 as it's a
  >    convention the this button is used for pull down menus where possible.

mouse-1 on the mode-line pops both the major-mode and minor-mode menus.  

  > 2) The size indication lighter shouldn't toggle line and column display
  >    because it has a different purpose.

Why not?


  > 3) The mode-line-highlight should not be applied to mode-line-remote because
  >    this face is used for `buttons' and no local-map (binding) has been added
  >    here.

Yep, but if there's no highlighting you'd never know there's anything
special about that place on the mode-line if you don't keep the mouse
long enough for the tooltip to appear.

Re: Mode line changes

[Stefan Monnier]

> 3) The mode-line-highlight should not be applied to mode-line-remote because
>    this face is used for `buttons' and no local-map (binding) has been added
>    here.

Agreed.  mode-line-highlight should be reserved for "active" elements.


        Stefan

Re: Mode line changes

[Nick Roberts]

 >   > 1) Toggling line and column display should move to mouse-3 as it's a
 >   >    convention the this button is used for pull down menus where possible.
 > 
 > mouse-1 on the mode-line pops both the major-mode and minor-mode menus.  

That's why I said "where possible".  Mouse-3 is tied up with other menus on the
major and minor modes.  Whereas mouse-3 currently on the line number mode does
nothing so I don't see the point in breaking the convention when there is no
need.

 >   > 2) The size indication lighter shouldn't toggle line and column display
 >   >    because it has a different purpose.
 > 
 > Why not?

Because it's not intuitive and I guess it's bad UI design to have two buttons
next to each other that do the same thing.
 
 > 
 >   > 3) The mode-line-highlight should not be applied to mode-line-remote because
 >   >    this face is used for `buttons' and no local-map (binding) has been added
 >   >    here.
 > 
 > Yep, but if there's no highlighting you'd never know there's anything
 > special about that place on the mode-line if you don't keep the mouse
 > long enough for the tooltip to appear.

You have a point but you might just ask yourself why the symbol was there, in
the first place and then you would have to move the mouse over it to realise it
has mode-line-highlight anyway.  In any case, the hand icon appears where there
is mode-line-highlight, so I think the user will expect thatsomething should
happen if he clicks there.


-- 
Nick                                           http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob

Re: Mode line changes

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz> writes:

  >  >   > 1) Toggling line and column display should move to mouse-3 as it's a
  >  >   >    convention the this button is used for pull down menus where possible.
  >  > 
  >  > mouse-1 on the mode-line pops both the major-mode and minor-mode menus.  
  > 
  > That's why I said "where possible".  Mouse-3 is tied up with other menus on the
  > major and minor modes.  Whereas mouse-3 currently on the line number mode does
  > nothing so I don't see the point in breaking the convention when there is no
  > need.

So you are arguing that for popping a menu one would have to use mouse-1
for the major-mode, vc-mode, and minor-modes and then when moving one
entry to the left use mouse-3 for the line-number/column-number menu ? 
That's completely inconsistent.  Adding a binding to mouse-3 would make
more sense if that's considered necessary.


  >  >   > 2) The size indication lighter shouldn't toggle line and column display
  >  >   >    because it has a different purpose.
  >  > 
  >  > Why not?
  > 
  > Because it's not intuitive and I guess it's bad UI design to have two buttons
  > next to each other that do the same thing.

Don't see why. Better do something useful than nothing. And it helps if
you manage to turn off both column-number-mode and line-number-mode,
it won't be easy to turn them back on.

  >  > 
  >  >   > 3) The mode-line-highlight should not be applied to mode-line-remote because
  >  >   >    this face is used for `buttons' and no local-map (binding) has been added
  >  >   >    here.
  >  > 
  >  > Yep, but if there's no highlighting you'd never know there's anything
  >  > special about that place on the mode-line if you don't keep the mouse
  >  > long enough for the tooltip to appear.
  > 
  > You have a point but you might just ask yourself why the symbol was there, in
  > the first place and then you would have to move the mouse over it to realise it
  > has mode-line-highlight anyway.  In any case, the hand icon appears where there
  > is mode-line-highlight, 

Well, I added that because I never noticed the tooltip until I saw the
corresponding code in bindings.el, and I did spend time looking at the
mode-line tooltips when I rewrote the text.  I don't really care that
much about this issue, so if you really don't like it, go ahead in
remove it.

Re: Mode line changes

[Nick Roberts]

 >   > That's why I said "where possible".  Mouse-3 is tied up with other menus
 >   > on the major and minor modes.  Whereas mouse-3 currently on the line
 >   > number mode does nothing so I don't see the point in breaking the
 >   > convention when there is no need.
 > 
 > So you are arguing that for popping a menu one would have to use mouse-1
 > for the major-mode, vc-mode, and minor-modes and then when moving one
 > entry to the left use mouse-3 for the line-number/column-number menu ? 
 > That's completely inconsistent.  Adding a binding to mouse-3 would make
 > more sense if that's considered necessary.

I'm saying that the major and minor modes already use mouse-3 for pull down
menus and that mouse-3 is generally used elsewhere for pull down menus, but you
can twist it if you want.

Incidentally vc-mode doesn't say what mouse-2 and mouse-3 do in the tooltip.

-- 
Nick                                           http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob

Re: Mode line changes

[Miles Bader]

Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu> writes:
> Don't see why. Better do something useful than nothing. And it helps if
> you manage to turn off both column-number-mode and line-number-mode,

That's not always true -- at some point, the mode-line become busy and
prone to problems with accidental clicks:  if you try to click on a
modeline widget, and miss by a character, it may be better that nothing
happens than something unwanted does; the more crowded with active
regions the modeline gets, the greater the chance for such mishaps.

-Miles

-- 
Bacchus, n. A convenient deity invented by the ancients as an excuse for
getting drunk.

Re: Mode line changes

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz> writes:

  >  >   > That's why I said "where possible".  Mouse-3 is tied up with other menus
  >  >   > on the major and minor modes.  Whereas mouse-3 currently on the line
  >  >   > number mode does nothing so I don't see the point in breaking the
  >  >   > convention when there is no need.
  >  > 
  >  > So you are arguing that for popping a menu one would have to use mouse-1
  >  > for the major-mode, vc-mode, and minor-modes and then when moving one
  >  > entry to the left use mouse-3 for the line-number/column-number menu ? 
  >  > That's completely inconsistent.  Adding a binding to mouse-3 would make
  >  > more sense if that's considered necessary.
  > 
  > I'm saying that the major and minor modes already use mouse-3 for pull down
  > menus and that mouse-3 is generally used elsewhere for pull down menus, but you
  > can twist it if you want.

No twisting involved, I was talking about the major-mode and minor-mode
menus, not some other menus. mouse-3 does not pop any menu for vc-mode.

  > Incidentally vc-mode doesn't say what mouse-2 and mouse-3 do in the tooltip.

Just an oversight.

Re: Mode line changes

[Richard Stallman]

    That's not always true -- at some point, the mode-line become busy and
    prone to problems with accidental clicks:  if you try to click on a
    modeline widget, and miss by a character, it may be better that nothing
    happens than something unwanted does; the more crowded with active
    regions the modeline gets, the greater the chance for such mishaps.

That is a very good point.  The smaller an active area is, the harder
it is to use, and the more error prone it becomes.

If the mouse click brings up a menu, rather than taking immediate
action, that more or less avoids the error problem.  It does not
reduce the inconvenience problem.

(I am not sure what feature was proposed.)