From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aidan Kehoe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [simon.marshall@misys.com: Font Lock on-the-fly misfontification in C++] Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:52:52 +0200 Message-ID: <17616.40996.316155.604207@parhasard.net> References: <20060723142630.GB1433@muc.de> <20060731220419.GF1271@muc.de> <17616.29352.887502.516153@parhasard.net> <85mzanwjct.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <17616.32316.759027.971436@parhasard.net> <85ac6nwdt7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1154523200 14331 80.91.229.2 (2 Aug 2006 12:53:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:53:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 02 14:53:13 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8GDj-0004Ev-RV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:53:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8GDj-0006U6-Cz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:53:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G8GDY-0006TU-3q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:52:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G8GDW-0006Rq-D2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:52:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8GDV-0006Rk-Vz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:52:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [66.111.49.30] (helo=icarus.asclepian.ie) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G8GGb-0004Hb-0v; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:56:05 -0400 Original-Received: by icarus.asclepian.ie (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 76B818008F; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:52:52 +0100 (IST) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: <85ac6nwdt7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta27) "fiddleheads" (+CVS-20060717) XEmacs Lucid X-Echelon-distraction: ISN SISDE AIEWS USP NAAP T Branch X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57999 Archived-At: Ar an dara l=C3=A1 de m=C3=AD L=C3=BAnasa, scr=C3=ADobh David Kastrup:=20 > > > When the term "GNU Emacs" is used, it is to draw attention to the > > > GNU project and the part Emacs plays within it, not to insinuate > > > that the scope of Emacs is supposed to be restricted to within GN= U. > > > > No-one uses =E2=80=9CGNU Emacs=E2=80=9D to insinuate that the editor= is supposed to > > be restricted to within the GNU project. What gave you that > > impression? >=20 > Why else use it for distinguishing between Emacs and XEmacs? =20 Because it has currency as a term for a specific editor and code base, an= d it=E2=80=99s clear. I refer you to http://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html: = RMS uses =E2=80=9CEmacs=E2=80=9D without qualification thirteen times to refer to = something other than GNU Emacs, and uses =E2=80=9CGNU Emacs=E2=80=9D when he wants to und= erline that he=E2=80=99s talking about that editor, not just when he=E2=80=99s underlining that it= =E2=80=99s part of the GNU project. =E2=80=9CEmacs=E2=80=9D on its own is ambiguous; that this ambiguity is o= ften resolved by context on emacs-devel@gnu.org does not contradict that.=20 > Their relation to the GNU project is similar. Many parts of GNU are no= t > copyrighted by the FSF, including software carrying "GNU" in its name. XEmacs doesn=E2=80=99t carry GNU in its name, no more than GNU Emacs carr= ies =E2=80=9CElectrotechnical Laboratory Japan=E2=80=9D in its name.=20 > > > Contrasting "XEmacs" and "GNU Emacs" is therefore misleading. > > > The proper names of the editors are "Emacs" and "XEmacs". > > > > Then GNU Emacs should call itself just =E2=80=9CEmacs=E2=80=9D on it= s startup > > screen, as XEmacs calls itself =E2=80=9CXEmacs=E2=80=9D on its start= up screen. >=20 > I repeat: when the term "GNU Emacs" is used, it is to draw attention > to the GNU project and the part Emacs plays within it. I refer you to the link above, where =E2=80=9CGNU Emacs=E2=80=9D is used = to distinguish that version written subsequent to Gosling Emacs in C and maintained by RMS fr= om other versions of the editor. > > > "GNU Emacs" is a distinction, but not one differentiating Emacs > > > and XEmacs. > > > > I disagree. >=20 > I am afraid that I consider the opinion of the creator of Emacs more > relevant than yours with regard on whether Emacs should be allowed to > be named Emacs. I said nothing whatsoever about allowing anyone to name anything.=20 =20 > Of course, you are free to call XEmacs whatever you like. But the name > "Emacs" is already taken. Happily, we call it XEmacs.=20 > > [...] XEmacs still supports (emacs-version); lots of our documentati= on > > uses =E2=80=9Cemacs=E2=80=9D to refer to any version of the editor, = something the GNU > > branch rarely does (that is, it rarely admits that the documentation > > may be applicable to other branches.). >=20 > Don't you find it silly to blame upstream for your failures to update > the documentation in order to reflect the fork? I find it helpful to indicate that functionality, while available in XEma= cs, is not limited to it. I=E2=80=99m not blaming anyone for anything.=20 > Note that this is all water under the draw bridge now, but > historically, the creators of Lucid Emacs laid claim to and hijacked > the name Emacs (without any further qualifications) for their own fork > of it. As Stallman hijacked the name of TECO Emacs (which editor he did not come= up with on his own, remember) before them. Lucid is long dead, Ben Wing is working intermittently at best, the editor has been called XEmacs for a decade, the documentation no longer tries to confuse the issue; I have relatively little sympathy for paranoia on this.=20 --=20 Santa Maradona, priez pour moi!