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* eww as a package?
@ 2014-07-27 10:34 Nic Ferrier
  2014-07-27 23:34 ` eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer Bill Wohler
  2014-07-28 19:30 ` eww as a package? Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Nic Ferrier @ 2014-07-27 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

I wish that something like eww was delivered as a separate package so
that those of us not on daily trunk could pull it and start playing with
it.

Any chance of that?


Nic



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer
  2014-07-27 10:34 eww as a package? Nic Ferrier
@ 2014-07-27 23:34 ` Bill Wohler
  2014-07-28 19:34   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  2014-11-13 21:32   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2014-07-28 19:30 ` eww as a package? Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2014-07-27 23:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Nic Ferrier <nferrier@ferrier.me.uk> writes:

> I wish that something like eww was delivered as a separate package so
> that those of us not on daily trunk could pull it and start playing with
> it.
>
> Any chance of that?

On a related note, mm-text-html-renderer doesn't have eww. Why not?

What is the difference between shr and eww?

In an MH-Show buffer, which uses the value of mm-text-html-renderer to
render HTML, why are all of the images all down at the bottom of the
message when using shr? It would be preferable if they were inline.

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/
GnuPG ID:610BD9AD




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-27 10:34 eww as a package? Nic Ferrier
  2014-07-27 23:34 ` eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer Bill Wohler
@ 2014-07-28 19:30 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  2014-07-29 11:48   ` Wolfgang Jenkner
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Rüdiger Sonderfeld @ 2014-07-28 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Nic Ferrier

On Sunday 27 July 2014 11:34:31 Nic Ferrier wrote:
> I wish that something like eww was delivered as a separate package so
> that those of us not on daily trunk could pull it and start playing with
> it.
> 
> Any chance of that?

The problem is that `eww' or rather `shr' relies on the C function `add-face-
text-property' which is only available in 24.4/trunk.  It is therefore not 
possible to package it for older versions.  Maybe it makes sense to provide an 
`eww' package once 24.4 is released.

Regards,
Rüdiger




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer
  2014-07-27 23:34 ` eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer Bill Wohler
@ 2014-07-28 19:34   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  2014-07-29  4:45     ` Bill Wohler
  2014-11-13 21:32   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Rüdiger Sonderfeld @ 2014-07-28 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Bill Wohler

On Sunday 27 July 2014 16:34:33 Bill Wohler wrote:
> On a related note, mm-text-html-renderer doesn't have eww. Why not?
> 
> What is the difference between shr and eww?

`shr' is the HTML renderer used by `eww'.  Kinda like what Gecko is for 
Firefox or Webkit/Blink for some other browsers.  Maybe the docstring of `mm-
text-html-renderer' should be changed from "use the built-in Gnus HTML 
renderer" to "use eww's HTML renderer" or "use GNU Emacs' HTML renderer"?

Regards,
Rüdiger




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer
  2014-07-28 19:34   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
@ 2014-07-29  4:45     ` Bill Wohler
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2014-07-29  4:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld; +Cc: emacs-devel

Rüdiger Sonderfeld <ruediger@c-plusplus.de> wrote:

> On Sunday 27 July 2014 16:34:33 Bill Wohler wrote:
> > On a related note, mm-text-html-renderer doesn't have eww. Why not?
> > 
> > What is the difference between shr and eww?
> 
> `shr' is the HTML renderer used by `eww'.  Kinda like what Gecko is for 
> Firefox or Webkit/Blink for some other browsers.  Maybe the docstring of `mm-
> text-html-renderer' should be changed from "use the built-in Gnus HTML 
> renderer" to "use eww's HTML renderer" or "use GNU Emacs' HTML renderer"?

I like the idea of putting eww in the docstring, since I've heard of
eww, but not shr.

Vielen dank for your reply! The shr renderer does seem to give
slightly better results than w3m, but I was hoping for more inline
images.

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/
GnuPG ID:610BD9AD



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-28 19:30 ` eww as a package? Rüdiger Sonderfeld
@ 2014-07-29 11:48   ` Wolfgang Jenkner
  2014-07-29 13:08     ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Jenkner @ 2014-07-29 11:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rüdiger Sonderfeld; +Cc: Nic Ferrier, emacs-devel

On Mon, Jul 28 2014, Rüdiger Sonderfeld wrote:

> The problem is that `eww' or rather `shr' relies on the C function `add-face-
> text-property' which is only available in 24.4/trunk.  It is therefore not 
> possible to package it for older versions.

I think Lars wrote this only for performance reasons as primitive (see
the thread starting with [1]).

Otherwise, the visual effect is the same as with

(defun add-face-text-property (start end face &optional append object)
  (funcall (if append
	       #'font-lock-append-text-property
	     #'font-lock-prepend-text-property)
	   start end 'face face object))

The functions called here seem to exist since

1995-10-26  Simon Marshall  <simon@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu>

	* font-lock.el: General reorganization.
        [...]
	(font-lock-fillin-text-property, font-lock-prepend-text-property,
	font-lock-append-text-property): New text property functions.

[1] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/153114

Wolfgang



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-29 11:48   ` Wolfgang Jenkner
@ 2014-07-29 13:08     ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
  2014-07-29 15:30       ` Nic Ferrier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Rüdiger Sonderfeld @ 2014-07-29 13:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Wolfgang Jenkner, Nic Ferrier

Hello,

On Tuesday 29 July 2014 13:48:49 Wolfgang Jenkner wrote:
> I think Lars wrote this only for performance reasons as primitive (see
> the thread starting with [1]).
> 
> Otherwise, the visual effect is the same as with
>
> [...]

Thanks for the explanation.  I think it's then just a matter of finding 
someone willing to maintain it as an external package.

Regards,
Rüdiger




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-29 13:08     ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
@ 2014-07-29 15:30       ` Nic Ferrier
  2014-07-30 20:24         ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Nic Ferrier @ 2014-07-29 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld; +Cc: Wolfgang Jenkner, emacs-devel

> Thanks for the explanation.  I think it's then just a matter of finding 
> someone willing to maintain it as an external package.

I might have a crack.


Nic



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-29 15:30       ` Nic Ferrier
@ 2014-07-30 20:24         ` Ted Zlatanov
  2014-11-13 21:29           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2014-07-30 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:30:25 +0100 Nic Ferrier <nferrier@ferrier.me.uk> wrote: 

>> Thanks for the explanation.  I think it's then just a matter of finding 
>> someone willing to maintain it as an external package.

NF> I might have a crack.

Shouldn't Lars, the author, have a say?

Ted




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww as a package?
  2014-07-30 20:24         ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2014-11-13 21:29           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-11-13 21:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

>>> Thanks for the explanation.  I think it's then just a matter of finding 
>>> someone willing to maintain it as an external package.
>
> NF> I might have a crack.
>
> Shouldn't Lars, the author, have a say?

Well...  I think eww is unlikely to work very well as an ELPA package
since it's written for the Emacs trunk in mind.  I doubt it would even
work on Emacs 24.4 due to using stuff like `when-let'.  Or did that make
it into Emacs 24.4?

Anyway, maintaining a package that's supposed to work over a large range
of Emacs versions is an quite different thing than just targeting one
single build.  If someone wants to try to maintain an eww "port", that's
fine by me, but I'm not going to change the "ooh! shiny!" implementation
style in shr or eww.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer
  2014-07-27 23:34 ` eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer Bill Wohler
  2014-07-28 19:34   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
@ 2014-11-13 21:32   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2014-11-13 21:49     ` Bill Wohler
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-11-13 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bill Wohler; +Cc: emacs-devel

Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> writes:

> On a related note, mm-text-html-renderer doesn't have eww. Why not?
>
> What is the difference between shr and eww?

shr is an HTML renderer.  eww is a web browser.  It's like the
difference between Gecko and Firefox.

eww doesn't make much sense as a `mm-text-html-renderer' value/

> In an MH-Show buffer, which uses the value of mm-text-html-renderer to
> render HTML, why are all of the images all down at the bottom of the
> message when using shr? It would be preferable if they were inline.

shr does render images inline, except in tables.  Emacs doesn't provide
the necessary control of the buffer to render stuff like


text text text text text text text
--------- text text text text text
| image | text text text text text
--------- text text text text text
text text text text text

which would be necessary for doing images inside tables without the
tables becoming illegible by the presence of the images.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer
  2014-11-13 21:32   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2014-11-13 21:49     ` Bill Wohler
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2014-11-13 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: emacs-devel

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> writes:
> 
> > On a related note, mm-text-html-renderer doesn't have eww. Why not?
> >
> > What is the difference between shr and eww?
> 
> shr is an HTML renderer.  eww is a web browser.  It's like the
> difference between Gecko and Firefox.

Gotcha.

> eww doesn't make much sense as a `mm-text-html-renderer' value/
> 
> > In an MH-Show buffer, which uses the value of mm-text-html-renderer to
> > render HTML, why are all of the images all down at the bottom of the
> > message when using shr? It would be preferable if they were inline.
> 
> shr does render images inline, except in tables.  Emacs doesn't provide
> the necessary control of the buffer to render stuff like
> 
> text text text text text text text
> --------- text text text text text
> | image | text text text text text
> --------- text text text text text
> text text text text text
> 
> which would be necessary for doing images inside tables without the
> tables becoming illegible by the presence of the images.

OK, then all of these emails must be tables then. Pity.

Thanks for the explanation.

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/
GnuPG ID:610BD9AD



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2014-11-13 21:49 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-07-27 10:34 eww as a package? Nic Ferrier
2014-07-27 23:34 ` eww, shr, and mm-text-html-renderer Bill Wohler
2014-07-28 19:34   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-07-29  4:45     ` Bill Wohler
2014-11-13 21:32   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2014-11-13 21:49     ` Bill Wohler
2014-07-28 19:30 ` eww as a package? Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-07-29 11:48   ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2014-07-29 13:08     ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-07-29 15:30       ` Nic Ferrier
2014-07-30 20:24         ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-11-13 21:29           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

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