From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9469: buffer-local variables seem to remember previous values Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <16AB56A492D74B3E9BC8D548CD71C6F3@us.oracle.com> References: <70AD30BE45C847BE828A3E8A71280A8E@us.oracle.com><95CFAF98BEBE4DFAB885B85F02126C57@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1315837915 6334 80.91.229.12 (12 Sep 2011 14:31:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 9469@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Andreas Schwab'" , "'Le Wang'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 12 16:31:51 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R37Y6-0006jf-W6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:30:45 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt107.oracle.com (abhmt107.oracle.com [141.146.116.59]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8CEUccE012495; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:30:39 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.90) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:30:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcxxJv1XZ8A1tyTaT1uKvkUWL/8RwAAMF2rA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E6E1799.00D2:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:36:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51066 Archived-At: > > My point is that the manual would be more helpful to someone in my > > position if it had an example saying don't modify quoted > > objects, and why. > > This has nothing at all to do with quoting. Don't use destructive > functions if you don't know what you are doing. Everything that people have said in the thread is true. That doesn't mean that we can't help users more in this regard. What could perhaps be made clearer in the manual - and perhaps in the Lisp Intro manual (e.g., with pedagogic examples), is the role of the Lisp reader in creating list structure, symbols, etc. It is ignorance of or forgetting about this feature of Lisp that confuses users (esp. newbies) when it comes to `quote' etc. Explanation of Lisp reading is far removed in the manual from the description of `quote' (and they are not directly related, so there is nothing wrong with this). It might help to (a) develop the reader-creates-objects subject in the Lisp Intro manual and (b) put a reminder about this in the section about `quote', with a caveat about modifying etc. In sum, it's not about whether you or the manual or Le is right or wrong. It's about helping users. And yes, this is a potential point of confusion. The consequences of the Lisp reader creating things are not necessarily obvious to newbies.