From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nick Roberts Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reducing mouse-dependency In Emacs. Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:56:31 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <16186.49695.437995.793551@nick.uklinux.net> References: <200308130536.h7D5avD22390@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200308131259.h7DCxbI22580@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1060815905 32229 80.91.224.253 (13 Aug 2003 23:05:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:05:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 14 01:05:03 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19n4fv-0005HP-00 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 01:05:03 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19n4gD-0006Ta-00 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 01:05:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19n4fO-0003ib-48 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:04:30 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19n4dx-0002xy-Lf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19n4cm-0000cG-Bx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [194.247.48.155] (helo=nick.uklinux.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19n4cP-0008Em-4m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:01:25 -0400 Original-Received: by nick.uklinux.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0A4E475FDE; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:56:31 +0100 (BST) Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-Reply-To: <200308131259.h7DCxbI22580@raven.dms.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.97 under Emacs 21.2.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15932 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15932 Luc Teirlinck writes: > > Miles Bader wrote: > > Luc Teirlinck writes: > > To take care of functional values, I need not only the value of the > > property but also need to know whether it was found in an overlay (and > > if so which overlay) or as a text property. > > How come? > > Because: > > If the value of the `help-echo' property is a function, that > function is called with three arguments, WINDOW, OBJECT and > POSITION and should return a help string or NIL for none. The > first argument, WINDOW is the window in which the help was found. > The second, OBJECT, is the buffer, overlay or string which had > the > `help-echo' property. The POSITION argument is as follows... I must admit I've lost the plot but it seems to have got far too complicated. I agree with Miles, I don't think that you need to know all these things. I think that Emacs *provides* the appropriate arguments depending on the context, which can then used in the function that evaluates to a string. I'm always in favour of re-use to keep things simple and, IMO, `customize' works well with and without the mouse. Here, a tooltip is displayed if the mouse is placed over a widget. In the mouseless scenario, the help is displayed in the echo area. However, this doesn't happen when point is over a widget but when the user types (widget-forward) or (widget-backward). This is less distracting and fits well with earlier comments about emacspeak. Could you not do something similar with next-help-echo-region and previous-help-echo-region? Nick