Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Bug Dout]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> (Not that I really need it - I recommended Emacs to one student, and
> lack of smooth scrolling was one of his main gripes.)

Spoiled young whipper-snappers, in my day I carried punch cards to the
computer center, in the snow, and uphill both ways. And damn grateful
for the opportunity.
-- 
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails.
  William Arthur Ward

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RE: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Drew Adams]

And being a realist you "adjusted your sails" by drawing a diagonal
line across the edge of your 1000-card binary deck with a marker,
so that when you (inevitably) slipped and fell in the snow and
slush and had to reconstruct the deck you could do so without too
much trouble (after drying cards & programmer over an open fire or
radiator).

Yup; been there, done that.

> Spoiled young whipper-snappers, in my day I carried punch cards to
> the computer center, in the snow, and uphill both ways. And damn
> grateful for the opportunity.
> --
> The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
> change; the realist adjusts the sails.  William Arthur Ward

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Spoiled young whipper-snappers, in my day I carried punch cards to the
> computer center, in the snow, and uphill both ways. And damn grateful

You forgot to mention the crushing heat,


        Stefan

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Phillip Lord]

Bug Dout <buggsy2@mailinator.com> writes:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>
>> (Not that I really need it - I recommended Emacs to one student, and
>> lack of smooth scrolling was one of his main gripes.)
>
> Spoiled young whipper-snappers, in my day I carried punch cards to the
> computer center, in the snow, and uphill both ways. And damn grateful
> for the opportunity.


Without wishing to be negative about the humour, the original question
was a good one.

One of my students, showed me some code the other day; it was a minute
or two before I realised it was in emacs. He's got it set up with
mininal window decoration, with some other windows clustered around. It
looked really very funky and modern.

Next time I saw him, he was trying out lightable, which also is very
cool. He said the editor is not very good, though, and he's having helm
withdrawl symptoms.

Looking cool and modern is important. Personally, I dislike smooth
scrolling but it is often what people expect. I notice that there are
two smooth scrolling packages on emacs-wiki and melpa. Do these do what
the OPs student was expecting?

Phil

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-04, at 14:41, Phillip Lord wrote:

> Bug Dout <buggsy2@mailinator.com> writes:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>>
>>> (Not that I really need it - I recommended Emacs to one student, and
>>> lack of smooth scrolling was one of his main gripes.)
>>
>> Spoiled young whipper-snappers, in my day I carried punch cards to the
>> computer center, in the snow, and uphill both ways. And damn grateful
>> for the opportunity.
>
>
> Without wishing to be negative about the humour, the original question
> was a good one.

Well, the jokes were good (I especially liked the "uphill both ways"
part).  Especially that I also remember some good ol' times (not
punch cards, but a Commodore 64, and later a 386 PC with 4 megz of RAM;
I did *lots* of TeX stuff in the `F4' editor of a clone of Norton
Commander...)

> Looking cool and modern is important. Personally, I dislike smooth
> scrolling but it is often what people expect.

Actually, even though I personally don't miss smooth scrolling, that
student did convince me that it's a good idea: it is quite easy to press
C-v/M-v accidentally and get lost.  Smooth scrolling gives a visual clue
of the direction we went in the file.  It's not really a question of
aesthetics, it is a question of usability/UX.

Also, *if* we want to draw young people to Emacs, we should be
competitive.  If this is what people expect (and it is, at least
sometimes), and it does not contradict the `Emacs workflow' (whatever
that is, you know - I'm definitely too young to know that;-)), then why
not?  If even RMS suggested implementing word-processing features in
Emacs, why not smooth scrolling?

> Phil

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> Actually, even though I personally don't miss smooth scrolling, that
> student did convince me that it's a good idea: it is quite easy to press
> C-v/M-v accidentally and get lost.  Smooth scrolling gives a visual clue
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(setq scroll-preserve-screen-position t)

made it easier for me to find back where I started.

     Dieter

-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Darmstadt, Germany

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-04, at 22:47, H. Dieter Wilhelm wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>
>> Actually, even though I personally don't miss smooth scrolling, that
>> student did convince me that it's a good idea: it is quite easy to press
>> C-v/M-v accidentally and get lost.  Smooth scrolling gives a visual clue
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> (setq scroll-preserve-screen-position t)
>
> made it easier for me to find back where I started.

Interesting.  I'll definitely check it out, thanks!

>      Dieter

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Actually, even though I personally don't miss smooth scrolling, that
> student did convince me that it's a good idea: it is quite easy to press
> C-v/M-v accidentally and get lost.  Smooth scrolling gives a visual clue
> of the direction we went in the file.  It's not really a question of
> aesthetics, it is a question of usability/UX.

FWIW, I agree.  I don't consider it high-priority enough to work on it,
but I'd welcome patches which provide something like it.


        Stefan

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[J. David Boyd]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Actually, even though I personally don't miss smooth scrolling, that
>> student did convince me that it's a good idea: it is quite easy to press
>> C-v/M-v accidentally and get lost.  Smooth scrolling gives a visual clue
>> of the direction we went in the file.  It's not really a question of
>> aesthetics, it is a question of usability/UX.
>
> FWIW, I agree.  I don't consider it high-priority enough to work on it,
> but I'd welcome patches which provide something like it.
>
>
>         Stefan


I don't think I understand.  My emacs seems to scroll fairly smoothly to me.
What exactly are we talking about when we say 'smooth scroll'?

Dave

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Yuri Khan]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 8:52 PM, J. David Boyd <dboyd2@mmm.com> wrote:

> I don't think I understand.  My emacs seems to scroll fairly smoothly to me.
> What exactly are we talking about when we say 'smooth scroll'?

Basically, the antithesis of doing whatever possible to ensure
acceptable performance when editing over a slow link.

In short: using non-integer line offsets (down to single pixels if
performance allows); remaining responsive during the scroll; and
ending the scroll with a deceleration such that the first two
derivatives of the scroll offset are zero at the end and the third
derivative stays continuous throughout. (Optionally, pressing Page
Down might also accelerate from 0 to the scroll speed according to the
same profile.)

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-05, at 17:15, Yuri Khan wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 8:52 PM, J. David Boyd <dboyd2@mmm.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think I understand.  My emacs seems to scroll fairly smoothly to me.
>> What exactly are we talking about when we say 'smooth scroll'?
>
> Basically, the antithesis of doing whatever possible to ensure
> acceptable performance when editing over a slow link.

Yes.  But it would not (should not) be turned on by default.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

I mean, not line by line, but pixel by pixel.  (And not on a Mac, rather
Linux or Windows.)

(Not that I really need it - I recommended Emacs to one student, and
lack of smooth scrolling was one of his main gripes.)

TIA,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:17:13 +0100
> 
> I mean, not line by line, but pixel by pixel.  (And not on a Mac, rather
> Linux or Windows.)

Yes.  You can see this in action if you visit a large image.

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-01, at 21:43, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
>> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:17:13 +0100
>> 
>> I mean, not line by line, but pixel by pixel.  (And not on a Mac, rather
>> Linux or Windows.)
>
> Yes.  You can see this in action if you visit a large image.

:-)  Nice try!  Of course, I mean scrolling of text.

Regards,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 23:15:57 +0100
> 
> 
> On 2014-12-01, at 21:43, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
> >> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:17:13 +0100
> >> 
> >> I mean, not line by line, but pixel by pixel.  (And not on a Mac, rather
> >> Linux or Windows.)
> >
> > Yes.  You can see this in action if you visit a large image.
> 
> :-)  Nice try!  Of course, I mean scrolling of text.

Yes, I know.  The same technique, i.e. setting window-vscroll, will
work for text.

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-02, at 04:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
>> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 23:15:57 +0100
>> 
>> 
>> On 2014-12-01, at 21:43, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> 
>> >> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
>> >> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:17:13 +0100
>> >> 
>> >> I mean, not line by line, but pixel by pixel.  (And not on a Mac, rather
>> >> Linux or Windows.)
>> >
>> > Yes.  You can see this in action if you visit a large image.
>> 
>> :-)  Nice try!  Of course, I mean scrolling of text.
>
> Yes, I know.  The same technique, i.e. setting window-vscroll, will
> work for text.

I don't get it: window-vscroll is apparently a function.  How do I use
it?  I found auto-window-vscroll, but neither nil nor t changes the way
the (normal) window is scrolled, e.g. using a scrollbar.

Regards,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Is it possible to scroll smoothly in Emacs?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:12:17 +0100
> 
> > Yes, I know.  The same technique, i.e. setting window-vscroll, will
> > work for text.
> 
> I don't get it: window-vscroll is apparently a function.  How do I use
> it?

You use window-vscroll to query the current scroll, and
set-window-vscroll to change it.

> I found auto-window-vscroll, but neither nil nor t changes the way
> the (normal) window is scrolled, e.g. using a scrollbar.

You need to write your own command using the above 2 functions.