From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Mark H. David" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Is there a sane way to type Hebrew with nikud with Emacs 25/Mac? Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 12:32:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1481056342.3486002.810530185.08361AFB@webmail.messagingengine.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1481056487 5089 195.159.176.226 (6 Dec 2016 20:34:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 20:34:47 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 06 21:34:42 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cEMRm-0000Sd-Eo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 21:34:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34682 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cEMRq-0007Tl-4u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:34:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cEMPf-0006S3-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:32:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cEMPb-0007SK-TZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:32:31 -0500 Original-Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:46861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cEMPb-0007QK-Od for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:32:27 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EDE207AB; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:32:22 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from web1 ([10.202.2.211]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:32:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=5TSKnCwlR8MOwYv05lVED8rmX oQ=; b=eInsygaO1plN72G9tAxrC5ryADzMQEsB6wXqmtPbN9kEhuFugrNfkyuDG YXwx/pzf4C9Qg5rpdCT2C5yYqTAK50qNl0qgIjhODaSknhTXFw6DeB0JcQUx+xYv VZRuY6tCSZTkojWSx3aACe5GHn3Ik9fADIxXngbkzuaEf1+sJE= X-ME-Sender: Original-Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2FBB4AA6B9; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:32:22 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-16cd6b55 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.26 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:210092 Archived-At: Emacs 25 just started correctly allowing input and display of Hebrew with n= ikud. Thank you Emacs 25 developers, and congratulations! I'm trying to type Yiddish with Emacs 25 on the Mac, which for purposes of = this discussion essentially means entering Hebrew characters from one of th= e built-in Hebrew keyboards on the Mac. I do not want to use any kind of c= ustom keyboard, since I use a lot of different Macs and use the Hebrew keyb= oard with a lot of different applications, not just Emacs, so I do not want= to have to customize beyond the built-in keyboard. This relies heavily on using the Mac keyboard's option key, since that's us= ed for typing Hebrew character combinations, which involves inserting Unico= de characters from the Hebrew range as a sequence of two characters: a base= Hebrew character plus a diacritic character, known as nikud, the combinati= on of which I'm calling here collectively "Hebrew with nikud".=20=20 Here's a reference showing Hebrew keyboard for Mac OS (and other OS's): http://www.ivritype.com/hebrew/kbd/ Here are the option key assignments on the Mac Hebrew keyboard used for Yid= dish: pasekh: Option+6 komets: Option+7 dogesh: Option+, khirek: Option+4 sin: Option+A paseky-tsvey-yudn: Option+H For example, typing this email in my browser with the Hebrew keyboard insta= lled, to type the character combination =D7=A9=D7=82 which is called "Sin", and looks like a normal "Shin" character with a "Sin= -dot" diacritic in the upper left corner, I switch to the Hebrew keyboard, = then type=20 Option+A which inserts the base character for the letter shin followed by the diacri= tic sin-dot. Doing this in emacs is really awkward, at least how I'm doing it. Maybe so= meone has a better way? First of all, it's necessary to at some time have changed the variable=20 mac-option-modifier to none. That let's you use the Option modifier key. But what that does is= makes you not have a META key. How can you use Emacs without a meta key? = I cannot really see having to use ESC instead of Meta in this day and age. Second, after you switch the keyboard to Hebrew, and start typing a few cha= racters, all the standard combinations used with the "English" keyboard go = away. Like CTRL+A becomes "CTRL+=D7=A9" (control + shin). I noticed this d= oes not take effect immediately after switching keyboards, only after I've = typed some Hebrew text using that keyboard. Anyhow, how can you use Emacs = with every normal binding of control and meta keystroke combinations unavai= lable to you? I figured if anyone is using Emacs on Mac for Hebrew with Nikud (i.e., Hebr= ew with vowels, as used for extra pronunciation guidance, children's books,= and liturgy), they would have to have worked out a better approach. Can anyone provide specific solutions or approaches, i.e., for the Mac? Thanks, Mark