JSON mode

JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

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Hi!

With the newly introduced json-sexp-mode, I was reminded of a JSON
editing mode that I started toying with some time ago, and have been
using privately.

It arose from my frustration of Emacs having JavaScript mode as the
JSON editing mode, making it more difficult than necessary to have
separate settings for editing JavaScript and JSON.

The code can be found at: http://folk.uio.no/simenheg/json-mode.el.

Compared to using the built-in JavaScript mode, the dedicated JSON
mode offers the following advantages:

 - A separate mode hook and namespace, providing for instance
   `json-mode-indent-offset'.

 - SMIE based movement and indentation.

 - Key bindings and a menu entry for prettifying JSON data.

 - Separate highlighting of JSON keywords, object names and values.

If you agree with me that Emacs should have a dedicated mode for
editing JSON, I'll be happy to help integrating it (be it this mode,
or another one, if it proves insufficient).

-- Simen

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Re: JSON mode

[Artur Malabarba]

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Sounds reasonable to me.

On 18 Oct 2015 11:27 am, "Simen Heggestøyl" <simenheg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> With the newly introduced json-sexp-mode, I was reminded of a JSON
> editing mode that I started toying with some time ago, and have been
> using privately.
>
> It arose from my frustration of Emacs having JavaScript mode as the
> JSON editing mode, making it more difficult than necessary to have
> separate settings for editing JavaScript and JSON.
>
> The code can be found at: http://folk.uio.no/simenheg/json-mode.el.
>
> Compared to using the built-in JavaScript mode, the dedicated JSON
> mode offers the following advantages:
>
>  - A separate mode hook and namespace, providing for instance
>    `json-mode-indent-offset'.
>
>  - SMIE based movement and indentation.
>
>  - Key bindings and a menu entry for prettifying JSON data.
>
>  - Separate highlighting of JSON keywords, object names and values.
>
> If you agree with me that Emacs should have a dedicated mode for
> editing JSON, I'll be happy to help integrating it (be it this mode,
> or another one, if it proves insufficient).
>
> -- Simen

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Re: JSON mode

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10/18/2015 01:27 PM, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:

> If you agree with me that Emacs should have a dedicated mode for
> editing JSON, I'll be happy to help integrating it (be it this mode,
> or another one, if it proves insufficient).

Of course. But I'd suggest putting it into ELPA, if only because then 
Emacs 24 users would also be able to enjoy it.

There is the issue of another mode with the same name, though: 
https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode

It's also relatively simple, and it's distributed via MELPA. I've used 
it for .json files for a while.

Maybe you could contact the author, and agree on a merge of some kind? I 
guess what's important is that Josh doesn't feel left out, and that the 
one resulting mode doesn't lose on features.

If Josh doesn't have copyright assignment signed, you might have to 
re-implement a command or two yourself.

Re: JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

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On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
> Of course. But I'd suggest putting it into ELPA, if only because then 
> Emacs 24 users would also be able to enjoy it.

I think it would be more practical to ship it together with json.el
(which is currently bundled with Emacs), because json-mode.el is
tightly coupled with it.

For instance, the prettification commands that json-mode.el borrows
from json.el don't work well in Emacs >25, because of bugs #16373,
#17133, and #21488.

> There is the issue of another mode with the same name, though: 
> https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode
> 
> It's also relatively simple, and it's distributed via MELPA. I've 
> used it for .json files for a while.
> 
> Maybe you could contact the author, and agree on a merge of some 
> kind? I guess what's important is that Josh doesn't feel left out, 
> and that the one resulting mode doesn't lose on features.
> 
> If Josh doesn't have copyright assignment signed, you might have to 
> re-implement a command or two yourself.

Good thinking, Dmitry, Josh should definitely be included in the
process. I've contacted him to hear what he thinks.

-- Simen

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Re: JSON mode

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10/18/2015 05:08 PM, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:

> I think it would be more practical to ship it together with json.el
> (which is currently bundled with Emacs), because json-mode.el is
> tightly coupled with it.

Maybe. Though so far, json.el has been a parser/serialization library.

> For instance, the prettification commands that json-mode.el borrows
> from json.el don't work well in Emacs >25, because of bugs #16373,
> #17133, and #21488.

I see.

Re: JSON mode

[Josh Johnston]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> 
> There is the issue of another mode with the same name, though: 
> https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode
> 
> It's also relatively simple, and it's distributed via MELPA. I've used 
> it for .json files for a while.
> 
> Maybe you could contact the author, and agree on a merge of some kind? I 
> guess what's important is that Josh doesn't feel left out, and that the 
> one resulting mode doesn't lose on features.
> 

Hi, Josh here. Just wanted to follow up on the thread as Simen and I have
been discussing over email. I'm really looking forward to seeing Simen's new
json-mode included in GNU Emacs and I'm very happy for it to use the
"json-mode" name.

We've also discussed a strategy to ensure that users of the old json-mode
can opt in to the new version as they choose (simply by uninstalling the old
package).

Re: JSON mode

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Josh,

I've been following your discussion with Simen (you can see my email in 
Cc in all of those messages, I think), and it's all good by me.

On 10/29/2015 05:47 AM, Josh Johnston wrote:

> Hi, Josh here. Just wanted to follow up on the thread as Simen and I have
> been discussing over email. I'm really looking forward to seeing Simen's new
> json-mode included in GNU Emacs and I'm very happy for it to use the
> "json-mode" name.
>
> We've also discussed a strategy to ensure that users of the old json-mode
> can opt in to the new version as they choose (simply by uninstalling the old
> package).

Re: JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

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Hello again!

With #21616 and #21798 installed, json.el is now instrumented to make
the new json-mode.el able to reach feature parity with Josh's.

The latest version can be found at:
http://folk.uio.no/simenheg/json-mode.el. It requires at least version
1e363a8e of Emacs to fully work.

Now the question on where to put the new json-mode.el remains.

I've tried to summarize what I perceive as the pros (+) and cons (-)
of putting it into ELPA vs. bundling it with Emacs below.

Putting it into ELPA:

+ Updates may reach the users faster.

- json-mode.el will need to support different versions of json.el
  (which is bundled with Emacs).

Bundling it with Emacs:

+ Somehow I feel that a modern text editor should come with support
  for editing JSON data out of the box, though that may be because I
  work in a web development environment. My feeling of this is
  strengthened by the fact that Josh's JSON mode has been downloaded
  from MELPA over 40,000 times.

- The mode is very young, and currently only used by me. Maybe it's
  too early to include it in Emacs, and it should be given a chance to
  ripen at ELPA first.

What do you think?

-- Simen

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Re: JSON mode

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Simen Heggestøyl <simenheg@gmail.com> writes:

> - The mode is very young, and currently only used by me. Maybe it's too
> early to include it in Emacs, and it should be given a chance to ripen at
> ELPA first.

> What do you think?

Yes, ripening in ELPA is going to become a more standard way of doing things.
In fact, until something else in core depends on it, ELPA is where it should
live, likely in the "tarball" subset of ELPA.

John

Re: JSON mode

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 11/12/2015 10:01 PM, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:

> - json-mode.el will need to support different versions of json.el
>    (which is bundled with Emacs).

Maybe set the minimum required version to Emacs 25.1? And reassess the 
decision before the next release.

But I wonder if someone with Emacs 24.5 would be able to download the 
current json-mode from MELPA, i.e. whether it would be shadowed by the 
new version in ELPA (that requires 25.1), or not.

Re: JSON mode

[Artur Malabarba]

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> But I wonder if someone with Emacs 24.5 would be able to download the
current json-mode from MELPA, i.e. whether it would be shadowed by the new
version in ELPA (that requires 25.1), or not.

It won't. When multiple versions are available from different archives,
package.el shows all of them.

Upgrading is a little annoying though. In 24.5, if you hit U in the package
menu after having installed one version, package.el will gladly try to
install any newer version available. In this case it will even try and fail
if you don't meet the 25.1 dependency.
Both issues are fixed now.

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Re: JSON mode

[Stephen Leake]

Simen Heggestøyl <simenheg@gmail.com> writes:

> Putting it into ELPA:
>
> + Updates may reach the users faster.
>
> - json-mode.el will need to support different versions of json.el
>  (which is bundled with Emacs).
>
> Bundling it with Emacs:
>
> + Somehow I feel that a modern text editor should come with support
>  for editing JSON data out of the box, though that may be because I
>  work in a web development environment. My feeling of this is
>  strengthened by the fact that Josh's JSON mode has been downloaded
>  from MELPA over 40,000 times.

That also indicates people are used to getting it from a package
manager, so Gnu ELPA is fine.

> - The mode is very young, and currently only used by me. Maybe it's
>  too early to include it in Emacs, and it should be given a chance to
>  ripen at ELPA first.

Definitely.

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

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Hi all, thanks for the feedback.

I will put json-mode.el into GNU ELPA, then, with the minimum required
version of Emacs as 25.1, and package version lower than Josh's
json-mode.el (for instance 0.1).

If I understand correctly, it will show up in the package menu, but
Emacs 24 users should see an error message if they try to install it,
and users of the existing json-mode.el from MELPA shouldn't be
bothered by the new package.

How does this sound?

-- Simen

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Re: JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Simen Heggestøyl 
<simenheg@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I will put json-mode.el into GNU ELPA, then, with the minimum required
> version of Emacs as 25.1, and package version lower than Josh's
> json-mode.el (for instance 0.1).
> 
> If I understand correctly, it will show up in the package menu, but
> Emacs 24 users should see an error message if they try to install it,
> and users of the existing json-mode.el from MELPA shouldn't be
> bothered by the new package.
> 
> How does this sound?
> 
> -- Simen

Now that Emacs 25.1 is released, I've added the new JSON mode to ELPA.

-- Simen

Re: JSON mode

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "SH" == Simen Heggestøyl <simenheg@gmail.com> writes:

SH> Now that Emacs 25.1 is released, I've added the new JSON mode to ELPA.

Thank you, Simen.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: JSON mode

[Clément Pit--Claudel]

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On 2016-12-11 09:58, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:
> Now that Emacs 25.1 is released, I've added the new JSON mode to ELPA.

Hi Simen,

Was there any reason to not build on the existing json-mode that was in MELPA, which already was downloaded roughly 100k times? Did the original author refuse to assign copyright and put their package on ELPA? 

In any case, was the name conflict necessary? Hijacking the name of the existing and established package seems bad form — but maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

Cheers,
Clément.



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Re: JSON mode

[Simen Heggestøyl]

Hi Clément.

More than a year ago I contacted the author of the original JSON mode,
Josh Johnston, to see if we could get JSON mode included in Emacs. At
the same time it seemed like a good idea to remove its basis on JS mode,
since various issues come from it [1, 2]. We would also need to either
get its two MELPA dependencies into GNU ELPA or replace them.

I had already written a JSON mode that I had been using privately for a
while that didn't depend on JS mode, and that didn't depend on any MELPA
packages (it uses json.el bundled with Emacs for the same
functionality). I suggested we merge our two modes before moving it into
Emacs or GNU ELPA. Josh then pointed out that everything from the old
mode was already implemented in the new one. So while the new JSON
mode's code isn't directly based on the old JSON mode's, it carries on
its name, its functionality, and the same default keybindings.

Lastly we agreed to try and make the transition to the new mode as
smooth as possible for the users. I've released the new mode with a
lower version number than Josh's, so Josh's mode will still be installed
for those who have configured MELPA. By doing so I was hoping to get
more testing, and finding out whether the new approach is really
better. If it turns out that it's not, we'll just retract it. If it
turns out that it is, we'll increase the version number higher than the
old mode (for instance 2.0).

-- Simen

[1] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/32
[2] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/34

Re: JSON mode

[Clément Pit--Claudel]

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Thanks for clarifying! This makes a lot of sense.

Cheers,
Clément.

On 2016-12-12 15:38, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:
> Hi Clément.
> 
> More than a year ago I contacted the author of the original JSON mode,
> Josh Johnston, to see if we could get JSON mode included in Emacs. At
> the same time it seemed like a good idea to remove its basis on JS mode,
> since various issues come from it [1, 2]. We would also need to either
> get its two MELPA dependencies into GNU ELPA or replace them.
> 
> I had already written a JSON mode that I had been using privately for a
> while that didn't depend on JS mode, and that didn't depend on any MELPA
> packages (it uses json.el bundled with Emacs for the same
> functionality). I suggested we merge our two modes before moving it into
> Emacs or GNU ELPA. Josh then pointed out that everything from the old
> mode was already implemented in the new one. So while the new JSON
> mode's code isn't directly based on the old JSON mode's, it carries on
> its name, its functionality, and the same default keybindings.
> 
> Lastly we agreed to try and make the transition to the new mode as
> smooth as possible for the users. I've released the new mode with a
> lower version number than Josh's, so Josh's mode will still be installed
> for those who have configured MELPA. By doing so I was hoping to get
> more testing, and finding out whether the new approach is really
> better. If it turns out that it's not, we'll just retract it. If it
> turns out that it is, we'll increase the version number higher than the
> old mode (for instance 2.0).
> 
> -- Simen
> 
> [1] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/32
> [2] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/34
> 
> 


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Re: JSON mode

[Josh Johnston]

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Thanks Simen!

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Thanks for clarifying! This makes a lot of sense.
>
> Cheers,
> Clément.
>
> On 2016-12-12 15:38, Simen Heggestøyl wrote:
> > Hi Clément.
> >
> > More than a year ago I contacted the author of the original JSON mode,
> > Josh Johnston, to see if we could get JSON mode included in Emacs. At
> > the same time it seemed like a good idea to remove its basis on JS mode,
> > since various issues come from it [1, 2]. We would also need to either
> > get its two MELPA dependencies into GNU ELPA or replace them.
> >
> > I had already written a JSON mode that I had been using privately for a
> > while that didn't depend on JS mode, and that didn't depend on any MELPA
> > packages (it uses json.el bundled with Emacs for the same
> > functionality). I suggested we merge our two modes before moving it into
> > Emacs or GNU ELPA. Josh then pointed out that everything from the old
> > mode was already implemented in the new one. So while the new JSON
> > mode's code isn't directly based on the old JSON mode's, it carries on
> > its name, its functionality, and the same default keybindings.
> >
> > Lastly we agreed to try and make the transition to the new mode as
> > smooth as possible for the users. I've released the new mode with a
> > lower version number than Josh's, so Josh's mode will still be installed
> > for those who have configured MELPA. By doing so I was hoping to get
> > more testing, and finding out whether the new approach is really
> > better. If it turns out that it's not, we'll just retract it. If it
> > turns out that it is, we'll increase the version number higher than the
> > old mode (for instance 2.0).
> >
> > -- Simen
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/32
> > [2] https://github.com/joshwnj/json-mode/issues/34
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
X-Team (http://x-team.com)

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Re: JSON mode

[Nicolas Petton]

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Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for clarifying! This makes a lot of sense.

It does, thanks for working on this!

Cheers,
Nico

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