From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Common vs Emacs Lisp (was: Re: return) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 19:04:13 -0800 Message-ID: <13199CAD-97D4-4B3B-969E-788713D4C1A2@mit.edu> References: <201011261019.20727.tassilo@member.fsf.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291431871 18543 80.91.229.12 (4 Dec 2010 03:04:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 03:04:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Developers To: Fren Zeee Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 04 04:04:27 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1POiQD-00037B-NS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 04:04:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54713 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1POiQC-0003uG-VT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:04:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57478 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1POiQ6-0003uB-GL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:04:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1POiQ5-0007eg-Ad for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:04:18 -0500 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu ([18.7.68.37]:44696) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1POiQ5-0007ec-94 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:04:17 -0500 X-AuditID: 12074425-b7c98ae000000a04-9c-4cf9afb0fc60 Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 1F.BA.02564.0BFA9FC4; Fri, 3 Dec 2010 22:04:16 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id oB434Gfl030932; Fri, 3 Dec 2010 22:04:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-76-121-219-15.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [76.121.219.15]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id oB434DFi011610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 3 Dec 2010 22:04:15 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:133388 Archived-At: On Dec 3, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Fren Zeee wrote: >=20 > Why not just throw the whole elisp and use CL to run emacs with > lexical scoping ? >=20 > What particular advantages do there accrue from the dyn scoped elisp > and by incrementally making fixes to this dinosaur ? Conservatively, I'll say at least 10,000 programmer-hours of existing, = heavily used (by emacs standards) elisp libraries, systems, programs, etc. There are/have been projects that recreate emacs in Scheme, Common=20 Lisp, and Tcl (that I know of). None of them have done very well when forced head-to-head with Emacs (Tcl doing the best, due to environment). I suspect that I'd get widespread agreement from emacs developers to a statement like the following: Common Lisp contains some good stuff that I'd like to see in = Emacs=20 and a large amount of stuff that I'd never want to see in Emacs, = even if it meant giving up the former. ..and that assumes that someone else magically does the work. For CL in particular, it looks like Climacs could use some help. *Chad=