From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: S Boucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 15:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1317766176.20193.YahooMailNeo@web161619.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> <4E8AFDF4.2040607@mousecar.com> Reply-To: S Boucher NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317766195 1612 80.91.229.12 (4 Oct 2011 22:09:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:09:55 +0000 (UTC) To: "gebser@mousecar.com" , Jeremiah Dodds , GNU Emacs List Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 05 00:09:45 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RBDBJ-0004Mn-AH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 00:09:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58477 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBDBI-0008Bk-Hj for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:09:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBDBC-00087U-Fl for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:09:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBDBB-0003Ez-IZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:09:38 -0400 Original-Received: from nm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.212.183]:26566) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBDBB-0003Ep-Ao for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:09:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.148] by nm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 22:09:36 -0000 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.250] by tm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 22:09:36 -0000 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 22:09:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 899378.53717.bm@omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Original-Received: (qmail 20449 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Oct 2011 22:09:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1317766176; bh=hefhpHlyLKHLA0UZ6aemT98nO1VY4ZNyzBwu+XrcYBI=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xPPy0M441QQUjtiqaFSUMuaLoiEJMNlxU6/lagh+eTKSnTOr5pv7IhgiE6VzB6LLEXngIXX4zJhUTg1tMleUQmQgER4FK1SAmInwt/Tgx7cTYWmtLcWYn8+1xZ0ASNnRJUvw10c8L9HN6D1+iIxJy7Kr2eeLAaHQ7IhQrwJd1vg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AJG1FPKGtx1jNZ8flQeTnjkggHYCgHm8iKjA3lyYV4Ov95QNFDfiUP/sceDHjRWd/aTANIt0oNuiim7VmE5RS0G74CYru8UgN4BV4JQIHwGyrnYEXmlwpUKWw3GULRnv/MRyHh++0F+QyEKbfv1dVDMAMe8fJIyBG/UpxznJjzg=; X-YMail-OSG: TQWsIuoVM1l0OA2D0Z.mF5IxfvOSRD61_5ZAhy6multJKG2 kI2xFgLYJ5VUNZBrENf_.tt1Dgbwx1cAfwFgiNUBiRHQ0_8CKwLlMk5RDF5U qp1OdV0H0fqQRq0ksc6Pf0ztVSdBX2YFsbx3VThw7chHkCKMZ3Mhj8RMKszA C7l0i_VGieiDeeIC6z4EpOp1Vcy0E_uhMAEp5U7tiQ5bzOYx3BJImkx5reYR NdqWUUjkKwofeRDJCU93uYkJ0_SLnj_2SbzPjIyAzJaOqeJNyp1vW.ll7Vvk gjaNuEl4f6fwYGPcccDuHQAiMEg0RQPzw8_wSI7ibDjVwYAKxPS00PbsWKIm 2qOr74E_H126_YStPbbiPno6qSaFVdTNdv6lxZ4DgHnUyjKpJSz7UMGLy5Qm W7By.WhWGO6pPaI6vWMV_HfihJWyXi7tYFhKPZ83FkhdNKFpf18kgSziLI55 OTA-- Original-Received: from [98.136.145.193] by web161619.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:09:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 In-Reply-To: <4E8AFDF4.2040607@mousecar.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 98.139.212.183 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82469 Archived-At: =0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0A=0A>( Again) Though some believe it ma= kes more sense to bottom-post and/or respond =0A> interlinearly, most peopl= e using email top-post.=A0 So we should all start doing =0A> what most peop= le do.=A0 :P=0A=0AIs it just me that has the impression that you are being = argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative?=0A=0ALet me ask you= : Leaving aside the technical merrits for a moment, if rms goes ahead with = the change for the sake of being coherent with other applications and make = it easier for the newbies, are you going to survive or are you going to giv= e up Emacs?=A0 How painful will the survival be?=0A=0A> C-p - Print the fil= e=0A> =0A> C-n - New file=0A> =0A> C-a - select All=0A> =0A> C-q - Quit=0A>= =0A> These changes will make it easier for those new to emacs.=A0 In that = they are =0A> culturally biased towards those who speak English, there are = good reasons for =0A> them.=0A=0ASigh! You like to be argumentative...=0A= =0AAnd we all know that Emacs is not the least bit biased towards English. = =0A=0AC-p - previous-line=0AC-n - next-line=0AC-y - yank=0AC-k - kill-line= =0A=0AFurthermore, if - and that's a big IF - the various letter choices (C= -a, C-w, C-x, etc) had=A0 anything to do with ergonomics, those without a q= werty keyboards might be getting a raw deal.=0A=0AI'm a long time emacs use= r and love it, but it's not like every decision ever made in emacs is alway= s right.=A0 I recall having to use C-x@ to set mark (that's having to type = C-x S-2) to set mark in some instances when I couldn't get C- to wor= k.=A0 Non-working C- was probably one of the most frequent issue bro= ught up in gnu.emacs.help back then.=0A=0AWe should really put this to rest= , but that's just my opinion...=0A