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From: Paul Eggert <eggert-764C0pRuGfqVc3sceRu5cw@public.gmane.org>
To: Bruno Haible <bruno-nWNVUoHt2MvYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>,
	rms-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org
Cc: emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org,
	bug-gettext-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Emacs i18n
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 09:36:06 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <128e2068-72d6-7822-6866-49c2a810c3db@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <25076895.mA2g9mTHSI@omega>

On 3/20/19 4:59 AM, Bruno Haible wrote:
> In the gettext approach (where 1) are POT files and 2) are PO files) we
> added plural form handling, which is just a small morphological variation,
> and it required a significant amount of documentation and education for
> translators. I would say, it is on the limit what we can make translators
> grok.

Thanks for making the point better than I was able to.

There's another reason pluralization is a good place to stop. GNU
gettext attacks the problem of how to translate formats containing
printf conversion specifications like %d, in phrases like "%d items".
That is, gettext deals with the grammatical problem of number, because
printf formats numbers. However, there are no printf conversion
specifications for other grammatical aspects such as case, gender,
tense, voice, or mood, which means there is no significant need for
gettext to deal with these other aspects.

In hindsight it might have been better if gettext had not attacked the
problem of plurals. As you wrtite, even plurals are nearly a bridge too
far. But it's done now, so we might as well use it.




  reply	other threads:[~2019-03-20 16:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 235+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-03-20 11:59 Emacs i18n Bruno Haible
2019-03-20 16:36 ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2019-03-20 21:32 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-21  2:14   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]     ` <E1h6nE3-0000bt-SW-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21 21:45       ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-23  2:28         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-23  7:55           ` Yuri Khan
     [not found]             ` <CAP_d_8WjQwAtcWCfkjXHtc-dqYyBfnaP0+9L8KK6eCp4r_ZsPQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 17:50               ` Ineiev
2019-03-24  1:43               ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]           ` <E1h7WOF-0006T8-Be-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 21:48             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  1:47               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22 20:50       ` Chusslove Illich
     [not found]   ` <87h8bx5ijn.fsf-i9wRM+HIrmlRTR8OWt4JRw@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21  2:55     ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-21  2:14 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22  1:26   ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-23  2:29     ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-07-17  9:27 Narendra Joshi
2021-07-17  9:36 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-17  9:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 13:32   ` mrf
2021-07-17 14:01     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:00       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 20:57         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-17 22:06           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-17 22:55             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-18  2:26               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:53                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:47               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-19  1:52               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  1:51             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  5:28               ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  5:24                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  6:32                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  9:45                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:16                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:08                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:36                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  8:28                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21  8:39                     ` tomas
2021-07-21  9:18                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:52                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 11:53                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:56                     ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:23                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 13:39                         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 14:05                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 14:47                             ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 17:55                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:15                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 18:26                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:27                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 18:42                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:06                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:40                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 20:49                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:44                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 21:58                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 22:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:05                                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  8:11                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:16                                                   ` tomas
2021-07-22  9:24                                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  5:49                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-22 10:04                                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:57                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:09                                         ` tomas
2021-07-22  8:17                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  9:18                                             ` lisa-asket
2021-07-21 14:22                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 17:02                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 17:49                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19 11:43               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  6:11                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  7:02                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  8:43                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:04                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:14                         ` tomas
2021-07-21 10:34                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21 11:16                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 13:01                       ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:51                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:15                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-22 17:32                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-07-22 18:02                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:31                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:47                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  9:59                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:28                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 11:49                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:44                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 13:20                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-23  6:03           ` Jean Louis
2021-07-23  9:22             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-27 20:52               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-17 22:03         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:46           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:06   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 22:03     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-18  6:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-02-18  0:35 bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
2019-02-27 21:36 ` Juri Linkov
2019-02-28  3:34   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-02-28 21:33     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-01  3:59       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-02 20:55         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-03  3:04           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-03 15:31             ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-03 20:57               ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-04  1:46                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-06  9:38                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-06 11:23                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 20:33                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 20:50                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-21 21:03                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:21                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:34                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:56                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 22:05                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 23:46                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-22  8:22                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:10                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 16:35                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 17:16                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 17:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 23:17                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:17                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:59                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-22  8:22                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 21:50                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  3:36                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 21:55                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24 23:31                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:32                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:31                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-26 16:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 16:22                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-26 16:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 22:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-27  3:43                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-28 14:56                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-28 15:52                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27  2:34                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-26 23:16                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-27  1:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-04-24  6:39                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-04-24 20:18                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25  3:35                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25  9:04                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:02                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-26  3:27                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27 23:06                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-25 10:52                               ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-25 15:37                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25 21:11                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:05                                   ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-27 21:22                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-28 11:03                                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-04  3:27               ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Richard Stallman
2019-03-04 16:36                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-04 18:37                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-04 19:07                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-05  2:09                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-05 21:58                         ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-06  2:16                           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 18:15                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:47                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:19                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:52                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:37                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  8:16                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:33                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-08  8:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:11                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-09  7:54                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 10:30                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:07                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-11  1:20                                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11  3:52                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  8:45                                           ` Yuri Khan
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:14                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07  3:42                               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:46                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 17:19                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 18:24                                     ` martin rudalics
2019-03-07 18:44                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 20:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:25                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  7:29                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:18                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                   ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 17:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 18:09                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:39                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 19:49                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:33                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:30                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 16:06                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  4:35                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-07 16:04                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  4:09                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11 21:48                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 22:51                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12 21:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-17 21:23                                           ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:20                                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:55                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-19 20:40                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 23:59                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-12  9:16                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-06 19:47                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:43                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:31                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  3:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:29                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-08  1:48                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08  8:08                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08 15:11                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08 20:11                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  2:44                                           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-09  6:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  8:37                                               ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 10:45                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 11:27                                                   ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 17:23                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:55                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:07                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:47                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:04                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 20:14                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:22                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 19:39                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:48                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:08                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-10  3:09                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10 13:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  7:37                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:12                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                 ` Richard Stallman

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