From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeff Clough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs User Friendliness Question/Hope Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:26:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1279293961.2135.143.camel@logrus.localdomain> References: <1279277325.2135.114.camel@logrus.localdomain> <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279294878 31354 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 15:41:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:41:18 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 17:41:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZn2G-0005c3-GZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:41:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51985 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZmnt-0006LD-JY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:26:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49012 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZmng-0005Tu-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:26:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZmna-0003UE-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.123]:42782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZmna-0003Tu-9v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:26:02 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=kjawQlkT3vujM0lFy4b69hWxQTW3SR1XdVtFii1ut0g= c=1 sm=0 a=FKcTpkZV5rYA:10 a=ood2b7iyd8MA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:17 a=a5X8KU_kmecR3lvKt-0A:9 a=H5KOpr2MuKoL6THGA2NUcaC3ZvQA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=qG-I4JPgJ84g89wJ:21 a=Mrx84P6AoYMnezeL:21 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 74.70.71.134 Original-Received: from [74.70.71.134] ([74.70.71.134:41235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by hrndva-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 8F/3C-00091-90A704C4; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:26:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.2 (2.30.2-1.fc13) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127439 Archived-At: On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 16:38 +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote: > > I don't think it's unreasonable for a new "usability" feature to check a > > global setting before doing it's magic. Or to otherwise be disabled > > unless either enabled specifically or enabled via a global "make Emacs > > work like Notepad" command. Make it on by default, but give me a way to > > turn it off with one line, as opposed to having one to three lines for > > every one of these enhancements. > > > > But that's easier said than done, isn't it? Where should we draw the > line between what's "new" and Notepad-ish and what's "old" and > Emacs-y? To be honest, it sounds like you're looking to add a function > to Emacs which makes it act exactly as the way you want it to. Every > Emacs user has their own taste, which is why the init files exist in > the first place. Let's not start adding what is essentially custom > user configurations to Emacs. > I think you have over-generalized what I was asking for. If you look through some of the recent (and not-so-recent) discussions on emacs-devel, you will see a number of proposed/implemented/soon-to-be-implemented changes, the primary (if not *only*) justification for which is making Emacs behave more like a typical window-based application. It's my hope that *those* changes can be easily turned off, not on a per-enhancement basis, but through a convenient variable. Look at it as an exercise in bundling these enhancements into something analogous to a compatibility mode like those that exist for vi in one form or another. Put the mode on by default, but let the people who want to turn it off. Your statements concerning "a function which makes emacs act exactly as I want" and "adding what is essentially custom user configurations to Emacs" are definitely *not* describing what I am requesting. Jeff