From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Infrastructural complexity. Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:18:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1248049132.6319.63.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <87ocrjtafd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <1247871746.6287.157.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <87tz19efhy.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87vdlo5xzi.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1248034719.6319.15.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <7dbe73ed0907191456o5139ebaq346c050a075b72f4@mail.gmail.com> <1248042089.6319.42.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <80C5F93303FB4DDBBDAED1BE38989FEC@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248049162 395 80.91.229.12 (20 Jul 2009 00:19:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:19:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, 'Lennart Borgman' , joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Juri Linkov' , rudalics@gmx.at, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, 'Mathias Dahl' To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 20 02:19:14 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MSgb3-0002v1-Oi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:19:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49387 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MSgb2-0004h1-QS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:19:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSgau-0004fN-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:19:05 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSgao-0004dY-VZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:19:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48079 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MSgao-0004dM-Sl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:18:58 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp181.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.181]:40981) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MSgam-0003VD-9S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:18:57 -0400 Original-Received: from relay28.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay28.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B90331B4032; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by relay28.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: lord-AT-emf.net) with ESMTPSA id 1B64B1B4028; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:18:53 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <80C5F93303FB4DDBBDAED1BE38989FEC@us.oracle.com> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112797 Archived-At: On Sun, 2009-07-19 at 16:54 -0700, Drew Adams wrote: > > Menu bars are an example of a virtual input/output device. > > Scrollbars are examples of virtual input/output devices. > > So are mode lines. A little hierarchical command menu > > could be the same sort of thing. > > So, I would think, is the minibuffer. (I'm just following your examples. I > didn't see any definition of virtual i/o device, so I might be mistaken.) I guess you could say, the way I'm using the phrase, that the minibuffer area - and each Emacs window - are virtual i/o devices. Minibuffer buffers and regular buffers are not virtual i/o devices but they are parameters to some virtual i/o devices (e.g., the parameter of what buffer should be displayed in a window or the minibuffer area). The minibuffer area, each window, the menu bar, etc. are all features of the display and I/O system that exist to show constantly-updated views on some object and to translate system input events into various kinds of command loop input events (e.g., a mouse action into a MENU event). It (the concept of a virtual i/o device) is just supposed to be a handy way of thinking about the core architecture of Emacs. If the concept fails to work that way for you, don't get hung up on it - I'm sure there are other good ways of thinking about the same architectural details. -t