Re: learning Emacs Lisp

[Andreas Politz <politza@fh-trier.de>]

Richard Riley wrote:
> Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:
> 
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>>> [...] but Xah Lee is an excellent resource with carefully argued
>>> points and practical approach to, amongst other things, eLisp usage.
>> This is a joke, isn't it?
> 
> Not in the slightest. I can only assume the bit you snipped about some
> more established Emacs users disagreeing with him applies to you? Or the
> tone suggests that.
> 
>> When learning a language it's better to take a look at polished code
>> that uses this language's idioms.  Xah's on a crusade against even the
>> most basic stuff like correct indentation...
> 
> By correct indentation I guess you mean the established custom? I cant
> disagree that customs are good but personally I think the established
> custom in elisp is rather awkward to the extreme. Not that i dont try to
> adhere to it :-; But even looking around the C world we see various
> indentation standards and everyone is entitled to their view. A constant
> style is, of course, better for everyone although it does not
> immediately mean that constant style is the best. As a programmer for
> years I can not even begin to understand how and why eLisp bracketing
> standards became as they did other than maybe to save screen real estate
> in the VT100 type days. FWIW, I think saving space is better for the eye
> too in some ways but I find "at a glance" analysis of most eLisp code
> almost impossible because of the standard of grouping all closing
> brackets.
> 

That darn old emacs again ! Seriously this has more to do with lisp in
general than specifically with elisp. I doubt you'd find any _one_ serious
programmer or author in the whole lisp community who proposes this kind of
style ( each closing paren on a seperate line ).

-ap

>> The best resources for elisp are
>>
>>   (info "(eintr)Top")
>>
>> and
>>
>>   (info "(elisp)Top")
> 
> For eLisp reference maybe.  But I found Xah Lee's tutorial very
> good. Its a programmers introduction and gets to the key points quickly
> in an ordered manner and grouped in logical sections.
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> We all prefer different methods. But I like his practical learn by doing
> approach.
> 
>> together with the online help (`C-h ?').  All of these are included in
>> emacs.
> 
> If I might be so bold as to mention I added a context help addition which
> shows you the function or variable under point as an extension to eldoc:
> 
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-fr/ElDoc#toc6
> 
>> And of course, you learn a language best by speaking/programming in it.
>> But Drew already said that.
> 
> Of course. But eLisp is special in that its almost unreadable to the
> typical procedural programmer fluent in C/C++ etc until you know a lot
> if it already. Or that was my experience. And we all have different
> experiences so it does no harm to remain open as to what suits other
> people.
> 
> I found Xah Lee's tutorial very useful and feel it would certainly
> benefit some others too.
> 
>> Ah, and there's this (and other emacs related newsgroups) + #emacs on
>> freenode where you can ask your questions.
>>
>> Bye,
>> Tassilo
>