From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net><62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278976998 32420 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2010 23:23:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:23:18 +0000 (UTC) To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'=D3scar_Fuentes'?=" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 01:23:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYSLE-00029s-E8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:23:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49779 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYSLD-0008HE-Pp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:23:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57726 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYSL8-0008H7-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:23:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYSL6-00023T-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:23:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:39371) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYSL6-00023P-NR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:23:08 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6CNN5mG015767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:23:07 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6CMeLlE032464; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:23:04 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 399285831278976946; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:22:26 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:22:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcsiEdaTUbbv0z4pTJiI4G6Mlh8g6wAAZ9kQ In-Reply-To: <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C3BA3D9.0163:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127127 Archived-At: > BTW, the red/green issue is more real than you seem to think. Have you > developed a GUI (or any sort of visual interface) that uses colors for > communicating critical info? A color-blind subject could argue that > you are being perverse when using red and green for displaying info, > no matter you refer to them by the "right" names on the manual. Sigh. I was afraid of this. You are probably not truly missing the point (I hope), but you are certainly acting as if you were. Mauvaise foi, it must be. If I had picked black/white you would be saying that I am not sensitive to race issues - or that I am too sensitive. Spare me the lecture that you hope presents you with an easy out and skirts the issue - too facile. FWIW, I work with UI accessibility everyday. I am well aware of the need to avoid use of color to convey info that is not conveyed any other way. Everything I produce at work must pass WCAG, FRA508 (US), and other accessibility guidelines (Oracle's guidelines are a superset). You have raised a red herring (yes red, not green ;-)). This is not about red/green color sensitivity or UI accessibility. NOT AT ALL. Think red end of the E-M spectrum vs blue end, if it helps. The point is that there are some distinctions that do not have the same degree of relativity as up/down. One person's red end of the spectrum is the same end of the spectrum as another person's red end of the spectrum. Whether they both see the same thing (or anything at all) when they look at a given color is another story. Forget the sophistry and think through the arguments. Yes, everything is relative, including relativity of all sorts; quantity does turn into quality; black can be white; and positive can be negative. The universe (and anti-universe) are dialectical at all levels, and all levels emerge and interpenetrate. Now back to your regularly scheduled program. "There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call The Twilight Zone." - Rod Serling