Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

Sorry if this breaks the threading (and if it's a repeated posting...)

>>>>> "UH" == Ulrich Hobelmann <u.hobelmann@web.de> writes:

UH> Thanks!  That solves the display problem.

UH> Emacs doesn't work with the Mac input method, though (alt-s doesn't do
UH> ß, but §).  I suspect the Alt key is mapped for something...

Using the  Emacs Input Method  (I prefer this  since I use Emacs  in 3
differnt OS) solves the problem.  You can choose between german prefix
where ß  is the result  of the sequence  " and s (prefix  version work
somethin  like iso-accents-mode,  so wovels  with umlauts  are entered
with the sequence " (wovel)) and german postfix where you get the same
result by hitting  s and then z. In this mode  wovels with umlauts are
entered typing what I think is  the "no umlaut version" of the word (I
don't speak German -blame on me- so I'm not sure...).

>> Hmmm...  I think thak  the use  of mac  roman is  in second  place for
>> deserving  a  rightful  spanking  (for  Apple  developers)  after  the
>> implementation of cp, mv and so on ... :)
>>

UH> What's wrong with cp, mv ...?
UH> Aren't they just from FreeBSD?

The commands  do come  from BSD  or GNU. But  the filesystem  not, and
those smarties did not adapt the commands to the filesystem.

So  if  you cp  a  file  you cp  just  the  data  losing the  extended
attributes.  mv  should behave  likewise too.  There  are a  couple of
utilities that fix this in the development stuff. I never used them as
I use my iMac  as a Unix box and I don't care  of the other file forks
(btw does someone know a free  utility to repartition the disk to make
place to an healy Debian GNU/Linux ?).
-- 
 /\           ___
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamico
\/                 e coltivatore diretto di Software

Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

I just can't stop it...

I guess the default encoding of Emacs is ISO-Latin-1, at least that's 
what I want to use anyway.

How can I input accented characters / German Umlauts, etc.?

Actually I think the problem is not the input, but the font: how do I 
change my
(set-face-font 'default "-apple-Bitstream Vera Sans 
Mono-regular-r-normal--13-140-75-75-m-120-mac-roman")
to use ISO-Latin-1 encoding instead of mac-roman?  The documentation 
didn't really help me there... (and my tries were worthless)

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[roodwriter]

Ulrich Hobelmann wrote:

> I just can't stop it...
> 
> I guess the default encoding of Emacs is ISO-Latin-1, at least that's
> what I want to use anyway.
> 
> How can I input accented characters / German Umlauts, etc.?
> 
> Actually I think the problem is not the input, but the font: how do I
> change my
> (set-face-font 'default "-apple-Bitstream Vera Sans
> Mono-regular-r-normal--13-140-75-75-m-120-mac-roman")
> to use ISO-Latin-1 encoding instead of mac-roman?  The documentation
> didn't really help me there... (and my tries were worthless)


I don't know if the font makes a difference, but have you tried M-x
iso-accents-mode?

Here are most of them:

A " and a vowel produce ö.

A ` and a vowel produce à.

A 'and a vowel produce á.

A tilde gives you ñ, ç, ¡, ¿

A ^ and a vowel gives you ô.

--Rod 
Author of "Linux for Non-Geeks--Clear-eyed Answers for Practical Consumers"
and "Boring Stories from Uncle Rod." Both are available at
http://www.rodwriterpublishing.com/index.html.

To reply take the extra "o" out of the name.

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I don't know if the font makes a difference, but have you tried M-x
> iso-accents-mode?

I recommend you don't try that.  iso-accents-mode is an old package that was
designed before Emacs was extended to support all kinds of funny charsets.
It still mostly works but has a few misfeatures.

Nowadays you should use input-methods instead.  Try C-\ (or C-u C-\ to see
what are your options).


        Stefan

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 07.03.2005 um 07:17 schrieb Ulrich Hobelmann:

> I guess the default encoding of Emacs is ISO-Latin-1, at least that's 
> what I want to use anyway.
>
> How can I input accented characters / German Umlauts, etc.?

The Carbon variant is Mac Roman. It accept the umlauts and other 8 bit 
characters from your keyboard.

You could try some of these:

	(setq process-connection-type t)
	(require 'site-fontsets-carbon)
	;(setq mac-command-key-is-meta nil)
	(set-language-environment               'German)
	(setq file-name-coding-system           'utf-8)
	(setq default-buffer-file-coding-system 'mac-roman-unix)
	(set-default-coding-systems             'mac-roman-unix)
	(set-keyboard-coding-system             'mac-roman)
	(prefer-coding-system                   'mac-roman-unix)
	(global-set-key [kp-delete]             'delete-char)
	  (set-default-coding-systems           'iso-latin-9-unix)
	  (set-keyboard-coding-system           'iso-latin-9)
	  (prefer-coding-system                 'iso-latin-9-unix)
	  (setq mac-transparency-alpha 80)
	  (setq initial-frame-alist '(
	        (mouse-color      . "midnightblue")
	        (foreground-color . "midnightblue")
	        (background-color . "antiquewhite1")
	        (font . "fontset-14pt_bitstream_courier")
	        (top . 10) (left . 650) (width . 89) (height . 60)))
	  (setq default-frame-alist '(
	        (background-color . "ghost white")
	        (foreground-color . "grey10")
	        (vertical-scroll-bars . left)
	        (font . "fontset-12pt_lucidasans_typewriter")
	        (cursor-color . "purple")
	        (cursor-type . box)
	        (top . 20) (left . 150) (width . 89) (height . 56)))

and look into the archves of the Mac OS X Emacs list, around last 
Christmas I published there a list of fontsets for the Carbon and X11 
environments, but the latter one is probably a bit incorrect:

------------------------------- Info --------------------------------
List Post: <mailto:macosx-emacs@email.esm.psu.edu>
List Archives: <http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/MacOSX-Emacs-Digests/>


--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

For some reason, this fortune reminds everyone of Marvin Zelkowitz.

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Actually I think the problem is not the input, but the font: how do I change
> my
> (set-face-font 'default "-apple-Bitstream Vera Sans
> Mono-regular-r-normal--13-140-75-75-m-120-mac-roman")
> to use ISO-Latin-1 encoding instead of mac-roman?  The documentation didn't
> really help me there... (and my tries were worthless)

No, the font itself uses mac-roman encoding, so you'd have to change the
font-data itself.  Emacs happily uses fonts with mac-roman encodings, so
there's no reason to make such a change.

The problem is most likely elsewhere.  E.g. that your files are read as if
they were encoded in "mac-roman" whereas they're encoded in "latin-1" (or
vice-versa).  Check buffer-file-coding-system and
default-buffer-file-coding-system.


        Stefan

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

>>>>> "SM" == Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Actually I think the problem is not the input, but the font: how do
>> I change my (set-face-font 'default "-apple-Bitstream Vera Sans
>> Mono-regular-r-normal--13-140-75-75-m-120-mac-roman") to use
>> ISO-Latin-1 encoding instead of mac-roman?  The documentation
>> didn't really help me there... (and my tries were worthless)

SM> No, the font itself uses mac-roman encoding, so you'd have to
SM> change the font-data itself.  Emacs happily uses fonts with
SM> mac-roman encodings, so there's no reason to make such a change.

It was a long and weary battle but I got some advice and solved the
problem with this:

(create-fontset-from-fontset-spec
                                
"-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-monaco,
        ascii:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--12-120-75-75-m-120-mac-roman,
        mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-apple-lucida grande-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
        mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-apple-bitstream vera sans mono bold-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
        latin-iso8859-15:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--12-120-75-75-m-120-mac-roman,
        latin-iso8859-1:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--12-120-75-75-m-120-mac-roman"
)

(set-face-font
 'default "-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-monaco")

for 9 points 

(create-fontset-from-fontset-spec
"-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-monaco,
        ascii:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman,
        mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-apple-lucida grande-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
        mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-apple-bitstream vera sans mono bold-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
        latin-iso8859-15:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman,
        latin-iso8859-1:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman")

Sadly I lost the references for the credits :(.

Hmmm...  I think thak  the use  of mac  roman is  in second  place for
deserving  a  rightful  spanking  (for  Apple  developers)  after  the
implementation of cp, mv and so on ... :)

-- 
 /\            ___
/___/\__|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____________________
  //--\ | | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamico  
\/		    e coltivatore diretto di software

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> Actually I think the problem is not the input, but the font: how do
>>> I change my (set-face-font 'default "-apple-Bitstream Vera Sans
>>> Mono-regular-r-normal--13-140-75-75-m-120-mac-roman") to use
>>> ISO-Latin-1 encoding instead of mac-roman?  The documentation
>>> didn't really help me there... (and my tries were worthless)

SM> No, the font itself uses mac-roman encoding, so you'd have to
SM> change the font-data itself.  Emacs happily uses fonts with
SM> mac-roman encodings, so there's no reason to make such a change.

> It was a long and weary battle but I got some advice and solved the
> problem with this:

Please remember that this is a development version, so you shouldn't try to
just work around problems.  Instead you should report them via M-x
report-emacs-bug so that they can be addressed.  Proving a workaround in the
bug report can be a useful addition, tho.

I.e. please report your problem via M-x report-emacs-bug, thank you.


        Stefan

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> It was a long and weary battle but I got some advice and solved the
> problem with this:

[...]

Thanks!  That solves the display problem.

Emacs doesn't work with the Mac input method, though (alt-s doesn't do 
ß, but §).  I suspect the Alt key is mapped for something...

Well, I might check out the other input methods suggested in this thread.

> Hmmm...  I think thak  the use  of mac  roman is  in second  place for
> deserving  a  rightful  spanking  (for  Apple  developers)  after  the
> implementation of cp, mv and so on ... :)
> 

What's wrong with cp, mv ...?
Aren't they just from FreeBSD?

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 08.03.2005 um 15:26 schrieb Ulrich Hobelmann:

> Emacs doesn't work with the Mac input method, though (alt-s doesn't do 
> ß, but §).  I suspect the Alt key is mapped for something...

Have you checked mac-command-key-is-meta too?

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

“Computers are good at following instructions, but not at reading your 
mind.”
    - D. E. Knuth, The TeXbook, Addison-Wesley 1984, 1986, 1996, p. 9

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

Peter Dyballa wrote:
> 
> Am 08.03.2005 um 15:26 schrieb Ulrich Hobelmann:
> 
>> Emacs doesn't work with the Mac input method, though (alt-s doesn't do 
>> ß, but §).  I suspect the Alt key is mapped for something...
> 
> 
> Have you checked mac-command-key-is-meta too?
> 

That variable is t.  So I guess alt should be free for other things, or 
does Emacs somehow interfere with the native input method?  Anyhow, I 
guess I could live with the latin-1-prefix or some other Emacs input method.

Thanks!

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 09.03.2005 um 02:15 schrieb Ulrich Hobelmann:

> That variable is t.  So I guess alt should be free for other things, 
> or does Emacs somehow interfere with the native input method?  Anyhow, 
> I guess I could live with the latin-1-prefix or some other Emacs input 
> method.

You shouldn't guess that much, but read a bit:

mac-command-key-is-meta's value is t

	Non-nil means that the command key is used as the Emacs meta key.
	Otherwise the option key is used.

In your situation the alt or the option key ⌥ is free create all the 
special glyphs of your Mac's keyboard. These can be meaningful too:

	(set-language-environment		'German)
	(setq file-name-coding-system	'utf-8)
	(setq default-buffer-file-coding-system 'mac-roman-unix)
	(set-default-coding-systems		'mac-roman-unix)
	(set-keyboard-coding-system		'mac-roman)
	(prefer-coding-system			'mac-roman-unix)

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new 
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." 
[Isaac Asimov]

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Sébastien Kirche]

Le 8 Mar 2005, Gian Uberto Lauri s'est exprimé ainsi :

> (create-fontset-from-fontset-spec
> "-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-monaco,
> ascii:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman,
> mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-apple-lucida
> grande-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
> mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-apple-bitstream        vera        sans       mono
> bold-medium-r-normal--0-0-75-75-m-0-mac-roman,
> latin-iso8859-15:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman,
> latin-iso8859-1:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--9-90-75-75-m-90-mac-roman")
> 
> Sadly I lost the references for the credits :(.

Mmh, looks like my personal fontset making attempt ;)

But it  is not satisfying enough as  it fails to display  some unicode chars
(e.g: box drawing U2500 et al) and it shows cyrillic ones instead.

I planned to reencode  the linux unifont for use with osx  but i did not had
time yet :/

-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I planned to reencode  the linux unifont for use with osx  but i did not had
> time yet :/

A more constructive approach would be to fix the problem rather than work
around it:  i.e. try and help us get Emacs to correctly use the built
in fonts.


        Stefan

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Sébastien Kirche]

Le 9 Mar 2005, Stefan Monnier a formulé :

> > I planned to reencode  the linux unifont for use with osx  but i did not
> > had time yet :/
> 
> A more constructive approach would be to fix the problem rather than work
> around it:  i.e. try and help us get Emacs to correctly use the built
> in fonts.

Indeed. But if i  am a developer and everyday Emacs user,  i have not enough
skills to  actively help correct internals  of Emacs apart  doing some tests
with cvs version and report bugs. :(

-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

Thanks to all responses.

However, it still doesn't work.

When I load a file which is latin-1, and switch 
default-buffer-file-coding-system to 'iso-latin-1-unix, it displays the 
little "1" at the bottom of the buffer, but the font doesn't display the 
other characters (umlauts, ß), but only boxes.

Re: Special characters on Emacs/Mac?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 08.03.2005 um 05:32 schrieb Ulrich Hobelmann:

> When I load a file which is latin-1, and switch 
> default-buffer-file-coding-system to 'iso-latin-1-unix, it displays 
> the little "1" at the bottom of the buffer, but the font doesn't 
> display the other characters (umlauts, ß), but only boxes.

You have to use fontsets -- or use an Emacs from CVS and report this 
bug!

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

Stau ist nur hinten blöd, vorne geht's!