From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Carsten Dominik Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: recent changes to org files Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:36:04 +0200 Message-ID: <1100BA17-7426-4C73-9EF0-FF90C1859B47@gmail.com> References: <8D11CC21-71C6-4BCE-ACBC-090E429E311A@science.uva.nl> <86k5pe6t4e.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193135791 21974 80.91.229.12 (23 Oct 2007 10:36:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:36:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Wiegley , Stefan Monnier , Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 23 12:36:31 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IkH7f-0005sn-3S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:36:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkH7W-0002Hf-Ri for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:36:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IkH7S-0002E7-Hi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IkH7R-0002Bs-L5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:36:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkH7R-0002Ba-3s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:36:17 -0400 Original-Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.174]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IkH7Q-0006wH-Ef for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:36:16 -0400 Original-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id a2so106565ugf for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:36:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=hjQYxyFNs05NttRVmfeJ/w/b+zK3HO4fDIZBHbFU4E4=; b=cyz1W8+FB4DIL3jhElM0n4njxpe8fCBRZb9PI6Rx0+6XLNUuj6hlpYpyQZzygXadFwhAKpNMh195kRRqvhEX0PwKNlvStEkxKrOExaONrb7AwxZXPrdbFqJMtgI2QFhValeNS2nGUoyJ+YqhdhfhMqwhnFXt/2scqNP9+835IJo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=KMhO4xQbWIYMvz5BLBGmGvAc+YEZpGNsa//+090I8XGYNML23PqE3i8pox6THuEMLh014QMwWDTESTWj2LFjxRbOLrT+4RK129b5UMUsyYNBdgNn52rmTZ/ikDL91eob1LQCQIHiWvkI8bXWEcvO/oocqfZTrak3/eDY2G6I6z4= Original-Received: by 10.67.88.4 with SMTP id q4mr648617ugl.1193135775263; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?146.50.22.167? ( [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q40sm1328347ugc.2007.10.23.03.36.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:36:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86k5pe6t4e.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81540 Archived-At: On Oct 23, 2007, at 12:08 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >>> To me the rule goes as follows: I only install patches, not files. >>> That usually takes core of those problems: if the author's version >>> disagrees with the CVS version I get a conflict when I try to apply >>> the patch. >> >> >> To me it works like this: My copy is the master copy, not the one in >> Emacs. The best setup for me would be to get email notifications, >> maybe with a patch, whenever some Emacs developer touches my files >> in Emacs. Then I can decide if I agree with these changes and >> incorporate the accepted part into my master copy. > > But this does not change that any changes by Emacs developers to the > copy in Emacs have been put there in the course of Emacs development > and with the usual amount of peer review for patches. It is certainly > your choice to accept those patches (or not) into your master copy. > However, that does not mean that this decision should result in > clobbering the changes in the Emacs copy. Agreed. However, it is annoying if changes are made without consultation. Sure, I don't care if that happens for Capitalization of the word "Copyright". But replacing, for example `next-line' by `forward-line' in an outline-like mode is a bug, and such changes should be run by the maintainer who knows the code well. Things like this have happened to me in the past, again recently. I don't have the time to spend my days on emacs-devel, my energy goes into making org-mode as good as I can. The version of org-mode that is tested the most is the one I distribute, and the most likely to not have any bugs. That is the one I am checking into. Emacs. When I see changes made to org- mode in Emacs I am incorporating them into my master copy if they make sense, and only then. If I would follow Stefan' advice and only check in diffs, the `next- line' code would be broken now. > It is never correct to do or undo changes in Emacs without Changelog > entry and/or CVS log. And dissent over the desirability of some > change should not result in "battling commits". I do agree, I am not battling, I am doing as good as I can and I I sometimes slip. But if I am the maintainer of org-mode in Emacs, than I and no one else decides what goes into the mode and what not. If people disagree, and I will quit maintaining this mode inside Emacs. > So the right solution can never be just copying over existing files > without any attempt of merging the changes or explaining why they were > undone. > > My personal recommendation would be to use the git mirror of Emacs' > CVS. Using gitk or a number of other git-related tools, it is dead > easy to instantaneously view all changes done in Emacs (git keeps an > impressively well-packed copy of the whole repository with the entire > history locally), merge in your own changes and synchronize stuff. Yes, if I find a few hours of free time in the next few month, I can start toying with a new versioning system. But don't hold your breath. - Carsten