From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Clark Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Propertizing the minor-mode-alist Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:29:56 +0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <1095647396.7357.281.camel@pineapple.bkk.thaiopensource.com> References: <1095335866.7357.83.camel@pineapple.bkk.thaiopensource.com> <1095388341.7357.93.camel@pineapple.bkk.thaiopensource.com> <1095475837.7357.125.camel@pineapple.bkk.thaiopensource.com> <1095575707.7357.220.camel@pineapple.bkk.thaiopensource.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1095647432 11166 80.91.229.6 (20 Sep 2004 02:30:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:30:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 20 04:30:18 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C9DwY-0001lj-00 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:30:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9E2P-0000sT-4d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9E2I-0000sO-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:36:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9E2G-0000rz-CI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:36:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9E2G-0000rw-8s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:36:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [161.58.244.53] (helo=thaiopensource.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1C9DwJ-0001a4-1B; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:30:03 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-1.bkk.thaiopensource.com ([203.130.150.188]) by thaiopensource.com (8.12.11/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8K2TxtC029178; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:30:00 +0700 (ICT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.100] (home-gw.bkk.thaiopensource.com [203.130.150.187]) by dmz-1.bkk.thaiopensource.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91FAFA03; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:29:47 +0700 (ICT) Original-To: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2.1thaiopen) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27303 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27303 On Mon, 2004-09-20 at 07:05, Richard Stallman wrote: > On the other hand, it's normal Emacs behavior that clicking on a word on > the mode-line does something useful, somehow related to that word. > > What it does is toggle the mode in question. Clicking different words on the mode-line does a variety of different things: - mouse-1/mouse-3 on the buffer name goes to the previous/next buffer - mouse-2 on the major mode name pops up a buffer with help on the major mode - mouse-2 on a minor mode gives help on that minor mode; mouse-3 pops up a menu allowing individual mode - mouse-2 on Narrow widens > Moving point is > something very different. That's the sort of command that is normally > found in the menu bar, never in the mode line, and certainly not among > the minor modes. > > If this interface is a great practical convenience, maybe it is > important enough to justify the inconsistency. But I'd expect that it > is not a great practical convenience, because the keystroke is more > efficient--isn't that so? The fact that validation is handled as a separate minor mode is not something a typical user is aware of; they perceive it as a feature of the major mode. The default behavior of a minor mode menu is not really appropriate in this case. But that's my fault for getting the invalidity indicator into the mode-line via minor-mode-alist; so I've changed to a different approach. I misspoke earlier: there's a keystroke for goto to next error, but not for goto first error. Obviously I could add one, but when you have a complex major mode, it's hard to find mnemonic key bindings for all the commands, and it's hard for the user to remember all of them (at least I find it hard to remember them). I find the click interface convenient because it's more efficient than the menu bar, but easier to remember that a keystroke interface would be. However, I take your point about moving point being a strange thing for a mode-line click to do. The underlying idea is that clicking on the invalidity indicator ought to give information about the invalidity. Moving point to the location of the first error was an easy way to do this, but perhaps a better way would be to pop up a buffer giving a summary of all the errors in the buffer. Do you think that would be better? James