From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Noah Lavine Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:12:51 -0400 Message-ID: <10954D02-E217-49F3-8824-757DA34074AB@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--252139295 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278702798 17520 80.91.229.12 (9 Jul 2010 19:13:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:13:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: yamato@redhat.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 09 21:13:16 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXJ0a-0002b8-7w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:13:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49514 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXJ0Z-0002Ow-Hl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:13:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56284 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXJ0U-0002Or-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:13:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXJ0P-0007D8-RJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:13:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:63360) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXJ0P-0007D3-Nw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:13:01 -0400 Original-Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1so1822688gwb.0 for ; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:13:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:content-type:subject :date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=kumUEOHN47Bj2pKT/bo7wGrtbqQF67x+cdseRzyCtVE=; b=oiXEEo3NENOqalb4o3UzrC3YFBZpuCPPB43aPahDoghgUO/68TU7UMICewdVZL0lUM XPg+FeMBdWggGAbN9b3TtIR/ieJrtkM87tUAIzz7/4xbRxLGTrNURzeRQnD67aAbVCTm hmR94X7jmYfVMC4c7rwfGGb5QnED5knyBylMQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:content-type:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version :x-mailer; b=Rs+JNdc5+oqvRZY48KM0L7r3Vk0IIju5sG8RuwwGnyrPcb+J9Ziaca+CooYN/4r31i QdjfQeRwEFrVLGv9HHHW8GpZCqt8HjG1bYJQqbOZsodpHeTwCbujotDS290tNTp5Wtss XNx3YlJQixQpB4bLcfgZhGJRo0PyFWtQYNgfg= Original-Received: by 10.150.179.1 with SMTP id b1mr2151177ybf.439.1278702781167; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dhcp-137-112-116-23.wlan.rose-hulman.edu (dhcp-137-112-116-23.wlan.rose-hulman.edu [137.112.116.23]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e8sm5433464ibb.20.2010.07.09.12.13.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:13:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126963 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-1--252139295 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Everyone's experience could potentially be different, of course, but I = am someone who started learning Emacs recently, and perhaps you would = like to hear the things I found difficult. The big issue, I think, is discovering what Emacs can do. I know that = Emacs is *potentially* extremely powerful, but I don't know enough to = make use of this power. The Emacs Starter Kit showed me some things, and = I found a few more through different web pages, but I think I still = don't know very much. I don't know where I would find Emacs features = that are useful for me. One issue is that a lot of good Elisp code is scattered around the = internet, and it's hard to find. The future integration of package.el = should help with that a lot. (Although the package.el interface still = needs better descriptions of what packages do.) Another issue is that there are a lot of commands to learn. Perhaps one = solution would be to emphasize more general functions over specific = ones. For instance, you don't need isearch-forward when you've got = isearch-forward-regexp. Finally, it would be interesting to compare the experiences of different = Emacs newbies like myself to see if there are similarities, but that = could be quite a project. I hope these things help Noah Lavine= --Apple-Mail-1--252139295 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Everyone's experience could potentially be different, of course, = but I am someone who started learning Emacs recently, and perhaps you = would like to hear the things I found = difficult.

The big issue, I think, is discovering what Emacs can do. = I know that Emacs is *potentially* extremely = powerful, but I don't know enough to make use of this power. The Emacs = Starter Kit showed me some things, and I found a few more through = different web pages, but I think I still don't know very much. I don't = know where I would find Emacs features that are useful for = me.
One issue is that a lot = of good Elisp code is scattered around the internet, and it's hard to = find. The future integration of package.el should help with that a lot. = (Although the package.el interface still needs better descriptions of = what packages do.)
Another issue is that = there are a lot of commands to learn. Perhaps one solution would be to = emphasize more general functions over specific ones. For instance, you = don't need isearch-forward when you've got = isearch-forward-regexp.
Finally, it would be interesting to compare the = experiences of different Emacs newbies like myself to see if there are = similarities, but that could be quite a project.

I hope these things = help
Noah= Lavine
= --Apple-Mail-1--252139295--