From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:51:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1088fcf6-d37f-4f0f-8537-3dbb4e01d2a0@default> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478551994 20194 195.159.176.226 (7 Nov 2016 20:53:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 07 21:53:10 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qtp-0007HH-TJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:52:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56519 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qts-0001ql-SE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:52:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47647) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qtj-0001p1-1p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:52:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qte-0000Yd-M0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:52:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33343) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qte-0000YM-If for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:52:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qte-0006kh-8I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:52:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855187525899 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:51:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48742 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qst-0006jf-Ly for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:51:15 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qss-0006jS-7E for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:51:14 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7Kp7Ah005952 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:08 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7Kp6sB001446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:07 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7Kp5F7019285; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:05 GMT In-Reply-To: <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:125448 Archived-At: > > and we can drop the comma before "prior". >=20 > Maybe, maybe not. The bit beginning with "prior" isn't qualifying > what comes before, it's adding an extra bit of independent information, > so the comma is justified. I don't agree. It is not an independent clause - it cannot stand alone. It is an adverbial clause that qualifies how (when) the modes run the p-g-m hook. > > And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". > > Why? >=20 > I'm told there are users who put things in prog-mode-hook to get > effects in (nearly) all programming modes. It will avoid confusing > them. OK. > Also, on a purely pragmatic point, the "(including...)" bit is likely to > reduce objections to my proposed change, allowing it to get into Emacs 25= .2 > more smoothly. ;-) > > I'd suggest just this: >=20 > > many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before > > running their own mode hooks >=20 > > Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how > > many do this? >=20 > "Some" is not incorrect, but it's not quite accurate either. "Some" > tends to carry connotations of "not that many" in English when a > context hasn't been established. Tends to? No, I don't think so. Can? Sure. But without context "some" suggests only at least one. It contrasts with none, not with many. "Only some" (esp "only a few"), on the other hand, is as you say. > I think it's the case that most > programming language modes are now derived from prog-mode, so "many" > warns users to be aware of exceptions. Fair enough. I'd still use "some", as it tends to have the effect of soliciting examination of whether to do so (when you write a mode), and to think about why and why not. Thinking about whether & why is more important than how many might use it. Anyway, these are all minor points, and I don't feel strongly about any of them.