From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22595: 25.1.50; Wishlist: There should be a way to list timers Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:16:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <10585fb1-f262-4b56-98ab-3b6f627fd942@default> References: <87oabrybgk.fsf@gnus.org> <83egcnqge3.fsf@gnu.org> <87k2mekaye.fsf@gnus.org> <87h9hiht4w.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87bn7qarzs.fsf@gnus.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455031111 7003 80.91.229.3 (9 Feb 2016 15:18:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:18:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22595@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ingo Lohmar Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 09 16:18:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3U-0002Gs-Nj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:18:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56956 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3T-0008Ag-Sx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:18:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3K-00085j-Ty for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:18:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3G-0003SF-FH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:18:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:52838) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3G-0003S7-B9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:18:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA3G-0006IB-74 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:18:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed Original-Received: via spool by 22595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22595.145503102824099 (code B ref 22595); Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2016 15:17:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33742 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA2O-0006Gc-AO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:17:08 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24538) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTA2M-0006G5-K7 for 22595@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:17:07 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u19FGxfG014765 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:17:00 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u19FGxeB001402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:16:59 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u19FGwu8000754; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:16:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <87bn7qarzs.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:112802 Archived-At: > > Why is this a good idea at all? Timers are always an implementation > > detail, not a user-level feature, as far as I am concerned. We neither > > have a UI for working with all overlays or text properties of a buffer, > > have we? >=20 > Reductio ad absurdum isn't very useful as an argumentation technique. >=20 > I have often wanted to examine (and cancel) certain timers that are out > of control. Inspecting them without a buffer like this isn't easy. I'm with Lars on this one. What is an implementation detail from one point of view, and for one user, can be a "user-level feature" for another user. Many Emacs users interact with Emacs at deeper levels, where a text/overlay property is an object of concern, not just something behind the scenes. Likewise for other objects: processes, timers, whatever. And we do have UIs for working with overlays or text properties. At least I do. Likewise, interacting with keymaps and font-lock. No one is obliged to use a UI that provides easier access to such things, but that access can be useful for some Emacs users. Some Emacs users will never go near hexl mode, but for those who do, it is useful.