From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Real-life examples of lexical binding in Emacs Lisp Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 10:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <103d08d8-bcd1-4150-9468-179270feb97b@googlegroups.com> References: <7b497693-bd08-45c0-99f4-e70836437535@googlegroups.com> <87y4k6rr2i.fsf@debian.uxu> <4c247f74-529f-41e4-9712-221560ff7c6c@googlegroups.com> <87zj4m57l5.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1433006130 21614 80.91.229.3 (30 May 2015 17:15:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 17:15:30 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 30 19:15:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YykLu-0006Dk-KR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 19:15:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40052 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YykLt-0000Oy-Ub for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 13:15:17 -0400 X-Received: by 10.182.52.199 with SMTP id v7mr17639043obo.36.1433005846387; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.40.97 with SMTP id w1mr46946igk.5.1433005846362; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!h15no772976igd.0!news-out.google.com!n7ni48373igk.0!nntp.google.com!h15no772971igd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: <87zj4m57l5.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.43.191; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.43.191 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 17:10:46 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:212407 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104691 Archived-At: On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 10:24:49 PM UTC+5:30, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > Rusi writes: > > > On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 9:27:25 PM UTC+5:30, Emanuel Berg wrote: > >> Contrary to this situation, Lisp is right in front of > >> us. There is no modelling in the world that will > >> enhance our understanding of Lisp more than we write, > >> say, 50 lines of it every day. And, doing that, one > >> might actually do something useful while at it! > > > > Some very eminent Lispers perceive Lisp rather differently: > > > > | Lisp... McCarthy did as a theoretical exercise-- an effort to > > define a more | convenient alternative to the Turing Machine. Lisp was > > not really designed to | be a programming language > > > > From http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html > > You have to understand what Paul Graham is saying. Yeah I think I do (at least somewhat). I just find it hilarious that the intentions behind Lisp were not strongly theory-oriented. That they were equally strongly practically oriented I wont dispute. > > But historically, John McCarthy definitely was designing a programming > language, not just a theorical exercise. One perhaps may be mislead by > the way "scientific" "papers" are written, including mere AI Memos. But > that's just the "academic" style. John McCarthy definitely was > designing a programming language, and this can be shown by the complains > he had and requirements he made of the languages he had to use before he > invented LISP, ie. Fortran and Algol. He wanted a ternary IF from > Fortran (which was rejected at the time), he wanted a COND form from > Algol (which was also rejected). Seeing that he couldn't have his ideas > integrated in the existing programming languages, he set to define his > own. > > But indeed, John McCarthy expected to refine a M-expression syntax for > his lisp programming language; the S-expression syntax was used only for > data, but since he defined an eval function working on code represented > as data, and since his student Bertrand Russel... Student Bertrand Russell? Now we're into alternate history methinks To come back to my earlier request: I would really appreciate some early key references on Lisp as a functional language. [And I am guessing that you Pascal will know more about this than many others] The reason is that the more I poke into this the more interesting (juicy) titbits come up; eg Here is an interview McCarthy gave a little before he died http://www.infoq.com/interviews/Steele-Interviews-John-McCarthy In the very first question he says he learnt functional programming from Backus' Fortran!!!!! What do you think of that?!