From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Should C-x C-x activate the region? [was: C-d deleting region considered harmful] Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <100157F1852148F2A192F00F49398690@us.oracle.com> References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com><87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83tylmyclx.fsf@gnu.org> <4C961787.3090907@gmail.com><878w2xsigj.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1284926930 9219 80.91.229.12 (19 Sep 2010 20:08:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:08:50 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 19 22:08:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxQBr-0000Q4-3E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:08:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39929 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxQBq-0001WC-CA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:08:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46029 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxQ9O-0008Rr-16 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:06:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxQ9M-0003Ij-Jv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:06:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:28915) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxQ9M-0003IR-EK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:06:12 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o8JK663Z000971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:06:07 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o8JK65mI000608; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:06:05 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt013.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 610982231284926721; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:05:21 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.217.191) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:05:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: ActYJ+pq8i3T4lRdTA61wzZPl6g83gACS3Mw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130501 Archived-At: > > However I've been annoyed quite few times when it > > highlights the region when I don't want it. C-x C-x being a > > primal example (yes, I understand that it's a change in > > semantics). (I think he meant "prime" rather than "primal", FWIW.) > Perhaps `C-x C-x' is the prime annoyance factor here? It > certainly was for me. Perhaps it just shouldn't activate > the transient mark mode? Good question. New thread. If indeed most of those who are annoyed by t-m-mode (I am _not_ one, FWIW) are _mostly_ annoyed by `C-x C-x' activating the region, there is a simple solution for them: rebind `C-x C-x' to a similar command that never activates the mark. Going beyond such individual remedies, are there many such annoyed users? If so then perhaps we should simply make that change to the default behavior: _not_ have `C-x C-x' activate the region. `C-x C-x' currently has two independent effects that are only artificially coupled: (a) activate the region, (b) swap point and mark. Both effects are useful, but they need not be coupled in the same key/command. Personally, I don't think I would have a problem with using two (simple) keys for those two effects. (We effectively already have different keys via the prefix arg, but their use is not so convenient. A new, separate binding for region activation would need to be simple.) For those who really want the current complex, DWIM behavior, we could keep it but just not bind it to `C-x C-x' by default. And the current behavior really does not deserve the traditional name `exchange-point-and-mark'. That name does not adequately describe its behavior anymore. Perhaps put `-dwim-' in the name somewhere, if we decide to keep such a command at all. --- Another possibility that just occurred to me (was this perhaps already discussed?): Let `C-x C-x' activate the region only if repeated (i.e., `C-x C-x C-x C-x'). But I suspect that that would still be annoying for navigational use (bounce to see where the mark is).