From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0f72b0bd-0170-414c-b926-0b836a973d67@default> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr> <32013464-2300-46c6-ba46-4a3c36bfee5d@default> <87twu62nnt.fsf@mbork.pl> <87oakdfwim.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83wpz1lh7c.fsf@gnu.org> <83oakdl7yj.fsf@gnu.org> <83ioall3x5.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9pzxtyi.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87k2uudoqr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87616c94g4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h9pw6922.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87a8vn75r7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435333011 31544 80.91.229.3 (26 Jun 2015 15:36:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:36:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Kaushal , Bruce Connor Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 26 17:36:38 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8VgD-0005IQ-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 17:36:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60853 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8VgC-000842-Ab for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:36:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41437) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8VPX-00044W-Ng for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:19:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8VPW-0002Dc-MM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:19:23 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50415) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8VPS-0002Bs-Jh; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:19:18 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t5QFJFda021897 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:19:16 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5QFJF1s028713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:19:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5QFJFRb013642; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:19:15 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187570 Archived-At: > Using the modeline is a very neat idea! > > There is one package (anzu) I know of that makes partial use of the > mode line to display the search pattern counts. And for years isearch+.el has used the mode-line lighter to indicate case-sensitivity. And it uses faces on the prompt (and on the lighter, for wraparound) to indicate word, regexp-vs-literal, and multi-buffer search, as well as search wraparound. (See my previous message.) > We will need a solution that doesn't break these other packages. > Or should the info be simply added to `minor-mode-alist` with > "button click properties"? (I forgot the exact property name). > > abo-abo creates a pseudo minibuffer on top of the actual minibuffer > to display the hints in his hydra.el package. That could also work > here? > > My earlier suggestion was simply based in the current code. I saw > that a `sleep-for` was used to flash the isearch setting change > momentarily. I wondered if we just keep that isearch setting change > display static and then remove that at the next search character > input by the user. > > Let's say that the user is search for "abc" and he has already > typed "ab". Isearch: ab| > Now the user decides to toggle one of the isearch toggles, let's > say case-fold toggle and hits `M-c`. Then the minibuffer can > display this Isearch: ab| [case-sensitive] > That should stay like that till the user continues typing=20 > Isearch: abc|=20 > But, showing the isearch settings persistently in a separate area > is a better idea. My suggestion: Isearch should *not* take over the mode-line. Certainly not by default. At the same time that Isearch is used, users typically need to see lots of other stuff in the mode-line as well. Any other persistent (i.e., always visible while Isearching) display of search info that is more verbose than a lighter should be optional, turned off by default, and perhaps toggleable by users during Isearch. In Isearch+ I use different faces in the *prompt* to indicate search wraparound, word, regexp-vs-literal, and multi-buffer search. This reminder is sufficient, I think, and it does not sacrifice any space. Wrt the current issue being discussed: Character folding could, like case folding, be indicated in the lighter. Something like this, for example: Isearch - case sensitive ISEARCH - case folding Isearc=C4=A5 - char folding ISEARC=C4=A4 - char folding & case folding However, as has been discussed in several threads in the past, here and in the bug list, there are several char-folding possibilities that we might want to offer. There are any number of reasonable, default character equivalence classes that you can think of. And users themselves can come up with any number of other such equivalence classes, some of which are specific to a particular context. Then bring multiple scripts and languages into the picture... The possibilities are virtually limitless. One person's common or useful char-folding use case is another's YAGNI, and vice versa. Succinct visual representation of the possible foldings is clearly untenable in the general case. That way lies folly. It might be possible to instead offer a general visual indication facility, which users themselves can develop or customize. But I do not think it makes a lot of sense for Emacs to add any such indication by default (and certainly not by hard-coding).