From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23426: 25.0.93; dired-do-find-regexp doesn't find newline Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0ef7b74a-ba45-46a0-a46a-81bb6ae450a6@default> References: <<57278BA0.6010604@h-rommerskirchen.de> <4xr3dj7yrk.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <9638d58e-0c5c-a587-c3a6-272254597b88@yandex.ru> <85ff912d-1457-487d-80b2-412389876172@default> <812a118d-331e-4f09-aeda-483ee71b1127@default> <<838tzpkgtj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462377943 13783 80.91.229.3 (4 May 2016 16:05:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 16:05:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23426@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 04 18:05:30 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIo-0003Cz-2B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 18:05:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48791 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIk-000878-AO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:05:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58953) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIb-0007rp-2p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:05:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIP-0004fM-6q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53873) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIP-0004eN-4d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:05:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIL-0000RX-NS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:05:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 16:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23426 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23426-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23426.14623778911684 (code B ref 23426); Wed, 04 May 2016 16:05:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23426) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2016 16:04:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axzIA-0000R6-Tj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:04:51 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27903) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axzI8-0000Qs-Gb for 23426@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 12:04:49 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u44G4gRu006424 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 May 2016 16:04:42 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u44G4fF8001209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 May 2016 16:04:41 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u44G4eG1016305; Wed, 4 May 2016 16:04:41 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117758 Archived-At: > > It's the new feature that should perhaps not have a key. At > > least it should not grab an existing key. There are plenty of > > unbound keys in Dired. And why not just provide the command, > > for now, and let users bind it themselves if they like? >=20 > Because we want to provide a coherent, consistent interface to the > users. Since M-. has changes to the xref UI, Same issue there. Why replace that key binding? Why not provide your new feature separately? What's the need to replace (now)? I understand that you think this new does everything the old does, and better. That's still not a good reason to replace the old immediately (including just taking over its key bindings). Just add the new - that should be enough. If it truly does everything the old does, and better, that will soon enough be clear to all, and there will be time enough to move out the old eventually. Emacs has long had parallel, different-behaving features that filled more or less the same needs for users. We haven't felt the imperative to replace one with another. You can use many different commands or UIs in Emacs to get the same job done. You can even emulate VI and CUA in Emacs. Emacs has been a big tent, not an in-with-the-new-way-out-with-the-old puptent. I welcome a show-all-search-hits-and-let-me-filter-and-choose approach for Dired searching. I've even developed such features myself, for my own use. I do not object to this feature - quite the opposite. What I question is replacing the existing features - and yes, even just appropriating their key bindings. That is not necessary - is it? Can't you just add this feature, without fiddling with the existing, different ways to search? Why must you insist on replacing and not be content to add? > > You changed the default behavior immediately. That's a far > > cry from providing, say, an ELPA package with the new feature > > and letting users adopt it by choice, and then, after a few > > years, discussing and deciding whether to replace the existing > > default behavior. What's the hurry to replace? >=20 > xref could have been incubated in ELPA, and that would have been a > reasonable choice as well, but at the time it was decided to be good > enough to be installed in the core already. So that ship has sailed. "That ship has sailed" seems to be the latest excuse for all kinds of stuff. Never heard that as an excuse here in past years. And no; nothing has sailed. None of this stuff has "shipped". Not curly-quotitis, and not this feature. This is a relatively recent phenomenon: wide-ranging, quick changes to C code etc., followed by "too late to question; already done; too late to back out now", even before released. > >> OTOH, when Drew will stop assuming "Emacs devs" have ill will, and > >> release knee-jerk reactions, such as this one, based on that, is > >> anyone's guess. > > > > When will Eli stop personalizing everything? >=20 > There's no need to blame Eli for this, that's for sure. I don't blame him (or anyone in particular) for the feature. I mentioned Eli by name because he mentioned me by name, and he attributed false motives to me. My complaint was about his personalizing things, not about his support of this feature.