From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0e2fdf1e-5810-4db3-a814-7b41fa5360be@googlegroups.com> References: <67cb463e-41f6-4f37-91ee-15d0fdb5ba9f@googlegroups.com> <20150812180621.32265.2E673ABE@ahiker.mooo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439431820 32154 80.91.229.3 (13 Aug 2015 02:10:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 02:10:20 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 13 04:10:18 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPhyE-0005po-Fm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:10:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40729 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZPhyD-0001s0-Iq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 22:10:17 -0400 X-Received: by 10.68.194.72 with SMTP id hu8mr32768803pbc.8.1439431636189; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:07:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.32.104 with SMTP id h8mr197611igi.8.1439431636158; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!pg9no9350557igb.0!news-out.google.com!o13ni14455igw.0!nntp.google.com!se8no2957593igc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.50.98; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.50.98 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 02:07:16 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:214238 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106522 Archived-At: On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 6:44:02 AM UTC+5:30, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Stefan is saying that many packages do things _wrong_. > > Actually, no. What I was saying is that several use-package features > are only useful if a package is poorly packaged. > > In the mean time, it became apparent that the reason for that is that > I assume people (will) use ELPA to install their packages, whereas > use-package was designed for the case where packages are installed some > other way. > > Hence use-package partly overlaps with ELPA, and in those parts that > overlaps, the work is done differently: in ELPA the work is done by the > packager, whereas in use-package the work is done by the end-user (since > there's no packager doing that work for him). Yes! There are packages and there are packages. To expand on Ian's deb analogy: On debian-ish systems [I am assuming mine are fairly typical] - there is software running from download tarball; make; install - there are proprietary/commercial debs installed eg Canon printer drivers - there are 'improper' debs -- Only in debian; needed on ubuntu. So downloaded and dpkg-installed and (cross-fingers) runs so far - there are more proper but still unsafe debs -- from ppas - there are the fully proper debs -- apt-get installed or came with the base system Of course from the pov of debian packagers only the last are qualified as packages. There is a case to be made for treating ALL as packages and not only the last Also notice that debian has a finely honed combo of human/social/soft and hard/technical: to get a package past debian's packaging policy is much harder than taking software that make-s and wrapping it into a deb that will be acceptable to dpkg -i even though it may violate all sorts of best practices