From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:14:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <0d097edc-fcc0-4e64-81af-f55c11c79226@default> References: <52D14E9F.5030001@gmx.at> <52D16627.4080604@gmx.at> <52D2661A.4000105@gmx.at> <90f208e1-9ab5-4b8c-9e4c-2dddf8c1868b@default> <52E28AAF.2030803@gmx.at> <52E38209.6080506@gmx.at> <52E3EAD0.2070701@gmx.at> <880b4937-a959-496b-9e20-b47f9ba3bce6@default> <52E401A0.1000101@gmx.at> <1da4f1b1-e119-442a-ac9c-f2687a9d1e05@default> <52E4F050.9010502@gmx.at> <52E616F6.7090804@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390835716 18170 80.91.229.3 (27 Jan 2014 15:15:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Leo Liu , 16038@debbugs.gnu.org To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 27 16:15:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W7nuE-0004Ch-VM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 16:15:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7nuE-0003wH-BY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:15:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49720) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7nu1-0002zZ-US for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:15:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7ntu-0006gi-Mq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:15:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52469) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7ntu-0006gb-K3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W7ntu-0002Wz-A3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:15:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16038 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16038-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16038.13908356839685 (code B ref 16038); Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:15:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16038) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2014 15:14:43 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38255 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W7nta-0002W9-FM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:14:42 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50893) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W7ntY-0002W0-4T for 16038@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:14:40 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s0RFEc9I020009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:14:39 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0RFEc46005400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:14:38 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0RFEbGc018546; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:14:38 GMT In-Reply-To: <52E616F6.7090804@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:84116 Archived-At: > >>> And just what problem is that? You say there is a problem to > >>> fix in my code. What is the problem? > >> > >> The one from > >> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D8368#32. > > > > That demo example was not from my code, as you know. It > > demonstrates bug #8368, showing why it needs to be fixed. > > And it is still pertinent, AFAIK. >=20 > So this example bears no resemblance to code you ever wrote or run? > It's just a hoax to attract the attention of developers to how > people could shoot themselves in the foot? Now I understand why > no-one else cared. This taught me a lesson ... What are you on about, Martin? That example underlines, in a simple way, the mismatch between `with-output-to-temp-buffer', which is only for help buffers, and "with output to a temporary buffer", which its name suggests. That's all. It is entirely germain to the bug. It is a trivial, minimal example pointing out some of the problems described in the bug report: (defun foo () "..." (with-output-to-temp-buffer "*TEMP*" (princ "FOOO\n---\n\n"))) (foo) C-x b *TEMP* TAB Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "No buttons!") And no, I do not use `with-output-to-temp-buffer' that way in my code. I know enough not to expect that it does what it says, and to use it only for a help buffer. That does not change the fact that the name is misleading and that Emacs could benefit from a real "with output to a temporary buffer", in addition to this misnamed macro, which is really "with output to a help buffer". It's not a hoax. It's a bug report. Whether no one besides me cares is their choice. But I suspect that someone does care, since you have gone to some trouble to write a new macro and there is now some talk (even if you say it is not from you) in favor of deprecating the name `with-output-to-temp-buffer'. Wrt such a possible deprecation: let's do it right. That's all.