From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0c3bbecf-f0fc-428c-aaf2-87e33da2b1d6@default> References: <87k11htj96.fsf@dustycloud.org> <87pnb7u70r.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y2pvrzho.fsf@dustycloud.org> <87y2pvqhuj.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnaog13i.fsf@red-bean.com> <87h7w0f03x.fsf@red-bean.com> <5bae1fd5-52ef-46f1-c728-8d5940bf5bbc@yandex.ru> <20200528205249.GC919@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <87h7vzedns.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117385"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Alan Third , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org, cwebber@dustycloud.org, Dmitry Gutov , ndame@protonmail.com To: Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 29 05:40:06 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jeVsL-000URi-EU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 29 May 2020 05:40:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeVsK-00063t-FX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:40:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41330) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeVrT-00054L-3p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:39:11 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeVrR-0002Il-RH; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:39:10 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04T3W7AZ058594; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:39:05 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=fQ6fqkxC5dCHrjIVXjHs9i13tIfJbuxGswZzVsP2ezM=; b=vmG3uO/jW3M4pFd4PzhZA+XG3d7qDa8UbDMEoJhBvKCaGUSlCTj6M19cOfoPtpjbNJK0 3vt70AHJ5IuJ/wRSopx148rBrlot31GUNdTjzOdMHNDYi9nuWji9iO0uk8UZEMTg0FI2 wjxD/O7cYTQqu8OVyXT8AwfWRSVK8Wgi+D4QBbIcVvcAoGx3JGpHL++Af3I/QmKsuuGN qzUxzu7kF6NBcn4a1UbEJrVslL7a90XOhic3OEoQEGydwV1BrrBdBkbdRk2Cs10Fk+lF cCFtMudLddFPYnRb/ioAtFdpuBYE0teuJjD9PnPPBXKCljmos5WydvoShxIcexFP42sF xg== Original-Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 318xbk88dg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 May 2020 03:39:05 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04T3XfKX022869; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:37:04 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 317j5x83kf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 May 2020 03:37:04 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04T3b0nc021540; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:37:01 GMT In-Reply-To: <87h7vzedns.fsf@red-bean.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5005.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9635 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=18 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005290024 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9635 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 cotscore=-2147483648 suspectscore=18 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005290024 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=156.151.31.85; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/28 23:39:08 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251602 Archived-At: > >A directory *is* a file. >=20 > Not in a sense that's meaningful to most non-programmers. Even many > programmers don't naturally conceptualize directories as files -- > especially those who have learned programming in the WWW era, since > they haven't had to do much programming in which file<->directory unity > matters. Yes. A directory is often _implemented_ using a file, and files and dirs can be manipulated in many of the same ways. But it helps to let a user know when some operation works for either one, as opposed to just one or the other. Creating a new directory isn't the same thing as creating a new file. And Emacs reflects this in its prompts and doc strings. Dired is just one example ("visit this file or directory in another window"). And for users who are used to thinking in terms of files and "folders" there's no conception at all of a folder being a file, regardless of the underlying implementation.