bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Eric S Fraga]

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Hi,

Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no longer
choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.


#+begin_src emacs-lisp :results 
(describe-variable 'org-read-date-prefer-future)
#+end_src

#+results:
#+begin_example
org-read-date-prefer-future is a variable defined in `org.el'.
Its value is time

Documentation:
Non-nil means assume future for incomplete date input from user.
This affects the following situations:
1. The user gives a month but not a year.
For example, if it is April and you enter "feb 2", this will be read
as Feb 2, *next* year.  "May 5", however, will be this year.
2. The user gives a day, but no month.
For example, if today is the 15th, and you enter "3", Org-mode will
read this as the third of *next* month.  However, if you enter "17",
it will be considered as *this* month.

If you set this variable to the symbol `time', then also the following
will work:

3. If the user gives a time, but no day.  If the time is before now,
to will be interpreted as tomorrow.

Currently none of this works for ISO week specifications.

When this option is nil, the current day, month and year will always be
used as defaults.

You can customize this variable.
#+end_example

so according to the documentation should work as I expect but
doesn't...  Have I misunderstood something?

Thanks,
eric


#+begin_src emacs-lisp :results 
(format "%s\n%s\n" (org-version) (emacs-version))
#+end_src

#+results:
: Org-mode version 7.01trans (release_7.01h.645.g09015)
: GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.20.0)
:  of 2010-08-14 on raven, modified by Debian

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-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D

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Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Bernt Hansen]

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
> entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no longer
> choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
> year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
> between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.
>
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :results 
> (describe-variable 'org-read-date-prefer-future)
> #+end_src
>
> #+results:
> #+begin_example
> org-read-date-prefer-future is a variable defined in `org.el'.
> Its value is time
>
> Documentation:
> Non-nil means assume future for incomplete date input from user.
> This affects the following situations:
> 1. The user gives a month but not a year.
> For example, if it is April and you enter "feb 2", this will be read
> as Feb 2, *next* year.  "May 5", however, will be this year.
> 2. The user gives a day, but no month.
> For example, if today is the 15th, and you enter "3", Org-mode will
> read this as the third of *next* month.  However, if you enter "17",
> it will be considered as *this* month.
>
> If you set this variable to the symbol `time', then also the following
> will work:
>
> 3. If the user gives a time, but no day.  If the time is before now,
> to will be interpreted as tomorrow.
>
> Currently none of this works for ISO week specifications.
>
> When this option is nil, the current day, month and year will always be
> used as defaults.
>
> You can customize this variable.
> #+end_example
>
> so according to the documentation should work as I expect but
> doesn't...  Have I misunderstood something?
>
> Thanks,
> eric
>
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :results 
> (format "%s\n%s\n" (org-version) (emacs-version))
> #+end_src
>
> #+results:
> : Org-mode version 7.01trans (release_7.01h.645.g09015)
> : GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.20.0)
> :  of 2010-08-14 on raven, modified by Debian

Hi Eric,

This was recently changed in commit
03b178d (Do not prefer future when jumping to a date in the agenda, 2010-09-21)
by Carsten after an offline discussion with me.

The behaviour changed for the 'j' command in the agenda only but not for
other date prompts.

The justification for this was at the start of a new month you need to
enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
which seemed inconvenient.

Carsten noticed that I had set org-read-date-prefer-future to nil in
http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html and questioned why that was
necessary.  After a short discussion he decided to change the default
behaviour for the agenda j command only.

Please comment on whether this change is good or bad.  The docstring
should be more clear about this change if we decide to keep it.

Regards,
Bernt

Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Achim Gratz]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:
> The justification for this was at the start of a new month you need to
> enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
> which seemed inconvenient.

Fair enough, but at the end of the year you certainly wouldn't expect to
jump back almost a year by the same reasoning, so intead of having a
choice to "prefer future" or "keep strictly the same year/month/day"
unconditionally one should be able to say how much of the past should be
considered.  Not unlike how most spreadsheet programs today allow you to
configure what range of years should be used if you enter just two
digits.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra

Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:01:49 -0400, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
> 
> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> > Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
> > entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no longer
> > choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
> > year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
> > between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.

[...]

> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> This was recently changed in commit
> 03b178d (Do not prefer future when jumping to a date in the agenda, 2010-09-21)
> by Carsten after an offline discussion with me.
> 
> The behaviour changed for the 'j' command in the agenda only but not for
> other date prompts.

Ah, okay, so I am not totally losing it... ;-)

> The justification for this was at the start of a new month you need to
> enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
> which seemed inconvenient.
> 
> Carsten noticed that I had set org-read-date-prefer-future to nil in
> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html and questioned why that was
> necessary.  After a short discussion he decided to change the default
> behaviour for the agenda j command only.
> 
> Please comment on whether this change is good or bad.  The docstring
> should be more clear about this change if we decide to keep it.
> 
> Regards,
> Bernt

Well, I must say that I prefer the old way as it is more likely (on a
simple probabilistic view considering the full twelve months of the
year) that I am going to want a future date if I refer to a month
before the current one.  I can understand your justification for
earlier in a month but I typically simply use, say, -7 or -10 then (as
I use +7 or +10 say for days in the future).  So, I guess my view is
that the change is more bad than good...  At the very least, I would
like this to be configurable, if that is at all possible?  If not, I
am sure I can adjust!

By the way, I guess I could see an argument for a date alone being for
the current month, whether future or past, much as time can be
considered already to be for the current day, whether future or past,
if the variable is configured as I have it (time), but even then we
should have a configurable variable?

Regardless, the docs definitely have to change!

Thanks,
eric

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-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D

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Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Bernt Hansen]

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:01:49 -0400, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>> 
>> > Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
>> > entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no longer
>> > choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
>> > year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
>> > between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.
>
> [...]
>
>> 
>> Hi Eric,
>> 
>> This was recently changed in commit
>> 03b178d (Do not prefer future when jumping to a date in the agenda, 2010-09-21)
>> by Carsten after an offline discussion with me.
>> 
>> The behaviour changed for the 'j' command in the agenda only but not for
>> other date prompts.
>
> Ah, okay, so I am not totally losing it... ;-)
>
>> The justification for this was at the start of a new month you need to
>> enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
>> which seemed inconvenient.
>> 
>> Carsten noticed that I had set org-read-date-prefer-future to nil in
>> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html and questioned why that was
>> necessary.  After a short discussion he decided to change the default
>> behaviour for the agenda j command only.
>> 
>> Please comment on whether this change is good or bad.  The docstring
>> should be more clear about this change if we decide to keep it.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bernt
>
> Well, I must say that I prefer the old way as it is more likely (on a
> simple probabilistic view considering the full twelve months of the
> year) that I am going to want a future date if I refer to a month
> before the current one.  I can understand your justification for
> earlier in a month but I typically simply use, say, -7 or -10 then (as
> I use +7 or +10 say for days in the future).  So, I guess my view is
> that the change is more bad than good...  At the very least, I would
> like this to be configurable, if that is at all possible?  If not, I
> am sure I can adjust!
>
> By the way, I guess I could see an argument for a date alone being for
> the current month, whether future or past, much as time can be
> considered already to be for the current day, whether future or past,
> if the variable is configured as I have it (time), but even then we
> should have a configurable variable?
>
> Regardless, the docs definitely have to change!

Personally I'm okay with reverting this commit if it is problematic.
I'll leave the final decision on that up to Carsten.

-Bernt

Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi,

On Oct 8, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote:

> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:01:49 -0400, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
>>>> entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no  
>>>> longer
>>>> choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
>>>> year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
>>>> between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Eric,
>>>
>>> This was recently changed in commit
>>> 03b178d (Do not prefer future when jumping to a date in the  
>>> agenda, 2010-09-21)
>>> by Carsten after an offline discussion with me.
>>>
>>> The behaviour changed for the 'j' command in the agenda only but  
>>> not for
>>> other date prompts.
>>
>> Ah, okay, so I am not totally losing it... ;-)
>>
>>> The justification for this was at the start of a new month you  
>>> need to
>>> enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
>>> which seemed inconvenient.
>>>
>>> Carsten noticed that I had set org-read-date-prefer-future to nil in
>>> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html and questioned why that was
>>> necessary.  After a short discussion he decided to change the  
>>> default
>>> behaviour for the agenda j command only.
>>>
>>> Please comment on whether this change is good or bad.  The docstring
>>> should be more clear about this change if we decide to keep it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bernt
>>
>> Well, I must say that I prefer the old way as it is more likely (on a
>> simple probabilistic view considering the full twelve months of the
>> year) that I am going to want a future date if I refer to a month
>> before the current one.  I can understand your justification for
>> earlier in a month but I typically simply use, say, -7 or -10 then  
>> (as
>> I use +7 or +10 say for days in the future).  So, I guess my view is
>> that the change is more bad than good...  At the very least, I would
>> like this to be configurable, if that is at all possible?  If not, I
>> am sure I can adjust!
>>
>> By the way, I guess I could see an argument for a date alone being  
>> for
>> the current month, whether future or past, much as time can be
>> considered already to be for the current day, whether future or past,
>> if the variable is configured as I have it (time), but even then we
>> should have a configurable variable?
>>
>> Regardless, the docs definitely have to change!
>
> Personally I'm okay with reverting this commit if it is problematic.
> I'll leave the final decision on that up to Carsten.

There is now a new option, org-agenda-jump-prefer-future.
The default is to recycle the setting of org-read-date-prefer-future,
but you can set your own specific preference as well.

Cheers.

- Carsten

Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 08:33:50 +0200, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> There is now a new option, org-agenda-jump-prefer-future.
> The default is to recycle the setting of org-read-date-prefer-future,
> but you can set your own specific preference as well.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> - Carsten
> 

Excellent.  Thanks for this!  Works perfectly.

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-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D

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Re: bug with respect to org-read-date-prefer-future

[Bernt Hansen]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> On Oct 8, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote:
>
>> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:01:49 -0400, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Recently, but I cannot say for how long, I have found that dates
>>>>> entered, for instance using "j" in the standard agenda view, no
>>>>> longer
>>>>> choose a time/day in the future but seem to default to the current
>>>>> year.  For instance, today, typing "j 2 feb RET" (with a real space
>>>>> between 2 and feb) jumps me to 2010 February 2, not 2011.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Eric,
>>>>
>>>> This was recently changed in commit
>>>> 03b178d (Do not prefer future when jumping to a date in the
>>>> agenda, 2010-09-21)
>>>> by Carsten after an offline discussion with me.
>>>>
>>>> The behaviour changed for the 'j' command in the agenda only but
>>>> not for
>>>> other date prompts.
>>>
>>> Ah, okay, so I am not totally losing it... ;-)
>>>
>>>> The justification for this was at the start of a new month you
>>>> need to
>>>> enter the year to go back to a date a week or two ago in the agenda
>>>> which seemed inconvenient.
>>>>
>>>> Carsten noticed that I had set org-read-date-prefer-future to nil in
>>>> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html and questioned why that was
>>>> necessary.  After a short discussion he decided to change the
>>>> default
>>>> behaviour for the agenda j command only.
>>>>
>>>> Please comment on whether this change is good or bad.  The docstring
>>>> should be more clear about this change if we decide to keep it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bernt
>>>
>>> Well, I must say that I prefer the old way as it is more likely (on a
>>> simple probabilistic view considering the full twelve months of the
>>> year) that I am going to want a future date if I refer to a month
>>> before the current one.  I can understand your justification for
>>> earlier in a month but I typically simply use, say, -7 or -10 then
>>> (as
>>> I use +7 or +10 say for days in the future).  So, I guess my view is
>>> that the change is more bad than good...  At the very least, I would
>>> like this to be configurable, if that is at all possible?  If not, I
>>> am sure I can adjust!
>>>
>>> By the way, I guess I could see an argument for a date alone being
>>> for
>>> the current month, whether future or past, much as time can be
>>> considered already to be for the current day, whether future or past,
>>> if the variable is configured as I have it (time), but even then we
>>> should have a configurable variable?
>>>
>>> Regardless, the docs definitely have to change!
>>
>> Personally I'm okay with reverting this commit if it is problematic.
>> I'll leave the final decision on that up to Carsten.
>
> There is now a new option, org-agenda-jump-prefer-future.
> The default is to recycle the setting of org-read-date-prefer-future,
> but you can set your own specific preference as well.

Thanks!

Regards,
Bernt