From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:26:18 +0000 Message-ID: <0AF3945E-EA32-4832-AB30-BDB37BC3816A@gnu.org> References: <20171129233237.27462.23351@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <1e542021-e389-cca4-6acd-349efddb2652@yandex.ru> <20171201223529.GG3840@ACM> <4a94ec5c-efdd-50f1-ff4d-277f5f45c2df@yandex.ru> <83lgil1qme.fsf@gnu.org> <83d13x1j2s.fsf@gnu.org> <34abea95-c7f7-e8fa-8407-8c2fd2a4cfe1@yandex.ru> <83y3mkzw1n.fsf@gnu.org> <83mv2zzv7z.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2saxyj1.fsf@gnu.org> <83efoaxv0c.fsf@gnu.org> <57382399-5efa-655f-e374-fbe1ef9d89aa@yandex.ru> <27732BB8-B3B7-4489-963E-A09333026A8E@gnu.org> <394bc7ba-76d7-229e-c45b-dc1c8bc86b22@yandex.ru> <12a94323-35a2-49e3-30fa-8b4c5042f581@yandex.ru> <87tvx4naqf.fsf@acer.localhost.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512577134 18203 195.159.176.226 (6 Dec 2017 16:18:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:18:54 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android To: Ingo Lohmar , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 06 17:18:49 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMcOs-0001Nn-Fi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 17:18:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54530 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMVz6-0002lS-QG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 04:27:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39605) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMVyK-0002lM-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 04:26:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMVyJ-0005hA-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 04:26:32 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39809) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMVyF-0005bE-8o; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 04:26:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.12.136.31] (port=50053 helo=[10.208.45.224]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eMVyE-0006yD-75; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 04:26:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87tvx4naqf.fsf@acer.localhost.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220760 Archived-At: On December 5, 2017 9:08:56 PM GMT+00:00, Ingo Lohmar wrote: > On Tue, Dec 05 2017 20:48 (+0000), Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 > > To make myself clear: I'd like to see your changes land in a way > that as much as possible doesn't remove prog-indentation-context > except where there's a clear and present contradiction=2E >=20 > Previously I dabbled with mmm-mode and even maintained an unpublished > fork to fix some shortcomings=2E Therefore I followed this and the > related threads with quite some interest=2E >=20 > Apologies if I misunderstood or if this is just noise (in which case > simply ignore my message), but I have only seen this point briefly > raised in passing, and it appears to be very important: >=20 > 1=2E I gathered that from what is known now, prog-indentation-context > cannot provide all that which multiple major mode frameworks > need/want from Emacs core=2E >=20 > 2=2E Also, it is not orthogonal, but rather incompatible with all other > proposals (be they concrete or vague) discussed thus far=2E >=20 > So if we really want to facilitate mmm-like frameworks (which is > wonderful and surely a great thing to do), prog-indentation-context > will > have to be removed whenever that happens=2E >=20 > Since it's not in any released version yet, it seems obvious to me > that > it should be removed right now, or else it will be "in the wild"=2E And > then it will be much more awkward to remove it in the next release > (and > I would assume that you will strongly object to removing it then)=2E >=20 > What am I missing here? My conclusions from reviewing the discussions and the proposed code change= s, as they appear on Dmitry's branch, were that prog-indentation-context is= a super-set of what is needed for MMM and similar frameworks=2E As I unde= rstand, Dmitry submits that the extra features are not needed and have neve= r been used, but I haven't yet heard any arguments to the effect that prog-= indentation-context _contradicts_ MMM=2E Which is why I still think it'd b= e prudent not to remove it, at least not yet, because the extra features it= provides might be useful, and because the code is part of the development = sources for more than 2 years=2E