From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#28736: 24.5; doc of `push' Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 09:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <09655ed0-be2c-4453-9755-224ec733e221@default> References: <<53afe0a4-8ce5-45fc-9e18-6bf52018c9b6@default>> <<83h8vatbtk.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1507481471 24103 195.159.176.226 (8 Oct 2017 16:51:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 16:51:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 28736@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 08 18:51:07 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e1EnB-0005cw-Fi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 18:51:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54455 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e1EnI-0007yX-UT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:51:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47225) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e1EnB-0007yE-A0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:51:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e1En7-0005FJ-S8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:51:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:47917) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e1En7-0005F1-Om for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:51:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e1En7-0006vH-Hx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:51:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2017 16:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 28736 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 28736-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B28736.150748144826583 (code B ref 28736); Sun, 08 Oct 2017 16:51:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 28736) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Oct 2017 16:50:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56598 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e1Emt-0006ug-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:50:48 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31881) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e1Ems-0006uU-Jo for 28736@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:50:47 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v98GodYY016603 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 8 Oct 2017 16:50:40 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v98GodbF011626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 8 Oct 2017 16:50:39 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v98Goc1G014246; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 16:50:38 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83h8vatbtk.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4588.0 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:138078 Archived-At: > > Both the doc string and the Elisp manual entry should say that `push' > > returns the new value of the place that it updates. The doc says > > nothing about the return value. >=20 > That usually means Usually? Maybe. In this case? Who knows? > we don't want to advertise the return value, and > that programs should not depend on it. Well, now, that would be quite strange in this case. This is taken directly from Common Lisp (with some functionality lost), where it is not only prominently documented but it has also been widely used - for decades. > Why is that a problem in this case? No. The right question is why is it a problem to document this? This is an important part of the behavior of the macro. Why should we _not_ inform users about this useful feature? This is no different (zero difference, in fact) from documenting that `setq' returns the value of its (last) assignment. (Not to mention that we document the return value of `pop'.)