From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13687: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111878: * lisp/replace.el(read-regexp): Let-bind `default' to the first Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 09:10:12 -0800 Message-ID: <084E374181BA45FB96F8F71A19E20182@us.oracle.com> References: <877glsyecw.fsf@gmail.com> <87621cfhff.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87zjykygjk.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87vc92gi37.fsf@gmail.com><1751CEB23B214A3AADCCFD9F007425DE@us.oracle.com> <87fw05esub.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1362762699 26117 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2013 17:11:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13687@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Jambunathan K'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 08 18:12:02 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pq-0007wq-7c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 18:11:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47928 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pU-0005XO-8a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60019) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pN-0005Vo-2R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pI-0001al-7c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:28 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35586) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pI-0001ah-4X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0pt-0004E9-TC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:12:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 17:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13687 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13687-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13687.136276268016193 (code B ref 13687); Fri, 08 Mar 2013 17:12:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13687) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2013 17:11:20 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39693 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0p9-0004D2-Eg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:19 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:22812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UE0p3-0004Cl-4l for 13687@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:11:13 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r28HAMMJ024000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:10:22 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r28HALYP017929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:10:21 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r28HAKmF031793; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 11:10:20 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.244.176) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:10:20 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87fw05esub.fsf@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac4cHXCnyz38r9EUQgWoGr+hWxDG9QAACgLw X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:72230 Archived-At: > > I also wonder whether you are perhaps changing the user experience > > here without a proper proposal and discussion in emacs-devel first. > > You seem to think that emacs-bugs is not a right place to discuss a > proposal. You are correct - that it is what I think. It is not the best place to discuss a user-visible behavior change. emacs-devel@gnu.org is the list for discussing such changes. Some interested in Emacs development follow that list but do not follow the bugs list. Yes, sometimes a bug report leads to further discussion that involves potentially changing behavior for users. And yes, sometimes that change is minimal and it is OK to decide here and let the wider community know via NEWS. And yes, sometimes it happens that discussion of even more substantial changes does not get moved from here to emacs-devel, out of laziness or whatever. But that is a weakness to be overcome. The wider Emacs development community deserves to follow and weigh in on user-visible behavior changes. > > "I will commit...tomorrow." does not inspire confidence. How about > > proposing a change and seeing what others in the development list > > think? > > It is happening as we type, don't you think. No, it is not. It is buried within a particular bug thread on a separate mailing list from emacs-devel@gnu.org. I would guess (but haven't checked) that many more people subscribe to emacs-devel than subscribe to the bug mailing list. Likewise would be my guess wrt those who read the dev and bug threads in other ways. Make a proposal for the behavior change and present it to emacs-devel. Based on the discussion (if any) and the decision reached there, you can then follow up with the bug fix. Reference the bug thread in the emacs-devel discussion via the bug # or its URL (but don't cc both lists). That's the right way, IMHO. It is not always followed correctly, unfortunately.