Re: basic question: going back to dired

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Chris McMahan]

Juan Manuel Menéndez Bellón <juanma_bellon@yahoo.es> writes:

> --- El jue, 31/7/08, Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> > I find C-x C-c really easy.
>> 
>> I don't find any control key combo "easy".
>> Perhaps I would find them a bit easier if I did the usual Caps Lock /
>> Ctrl switch, but I suspect it wouldn't be much of a difference.
>
> Of course, I'm not sure how it will feel for you, but I find it to be a
> very big difference. That switch moves the Ctrl key from a position that
> is unreachable with normal typing position and a fairly normal keyboard,
> to a position in the home row. You pass from needing to shift your whole
> arm to needing a minor pinky shift.
>
> I use Control more often than Caps Lock (by orders of magnitude, I'm
> sure), so I rather have the former in the home row.
>
> Best regards,
> -- 
> Juanma

I must agree wholeheartedly with Juanma. Until I remap the caps-lock
to control, I'm basically useless in Emacs. Once the change is made,
however, I can touch type and move around in emacs without even really
thinking about it. It becomes much easier!

- Chris

-- 
     (.   .)
  =ooO=(_)=Ooo=====================================
  Chris McMahan | first_initiallastname@one.dot.net
  =================================================

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Xah]

> I must agree wholeheartedly with Juanma. Until I remap the caps-lock
> to control, I'm basically useless in Emacs. Once the change is made,
> however, I can touch type and move around in emacs without even really
> thinking about it. It becomes much easier!

I must say something about remapping Control to Cap Lock...

among tech geek circles, it's widely recommended like a dogma.
However, remapping Control to Cap Lock seriously violates some basic
ergonomic principles.

In touch typing, modifiers comes in pairs, such as Shift. The accepted
ergonomic way to press them is using one hand to press the modifier
and the other to press the other key.

You can see how by it is otherwise by disabling one of the Shift key.
With just one modifier, you are heavily handicapped. As a example, try
this exercise:

TYPE THIS SENTENCE WITH JUST ONE SHIFT KEY AND WITHOUT USING CAP LOCK.

Quickly, you'll see the pain.

Similar is with other modifier keys such as Alt and Ctrl. The reason
they are not noticed only because they are seldomly used. However, in
emacs, it is heavily used. So, by mapping Ctrl to the Cap Lock key,
you put a severe handicap by putting all work into the left pinky, and
restrict the number of keys you can comfortably use with Ctrl.

The reason that most still recommend it is because the Ctrl key is
traditionally on the corner of keyboard and rather difficult to press.
Also, many keyboards does not have right Ctrl. So, in a sense, Cap
Lock as Ctrl is a improvement. It is especially a good solution on
labtop keyboards.

There are 2 ways to remedy the problem of pressing of Ctrl.

One is to buy a good keyboard that has big Alt and Ctrl keys, and on
both side of the keyboard, and symmetrically placed with respect to
your thumbs when hands in home position. (some keyboards, such as
Apple's, has the right side modifiers far to the right, rendering them
unusable for touch type) Microsoft's ergonomic keyboard satisfies this
requirement (MS's ergo keyboards is quite popular, and in fact MS's
input devices is highly received. I haven't checked the facts, but i
think MS's input devices has the largest market share. The second now
is perhaps Logitech.).

The other way is to learn to type the corner Ctrl by pressing down
your palm or semi fist, instead of poking it with your pinky. This can
be easily done on most PC keyboards.

To see which is better, you can type this sentence and press Ctrl for
every letter. (do it outside of emacs) You can quickly find out which
way is better for you.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
> In touch typing, modifiers comes in pairs, such as Shift. The accepted
> ergonomic way to press them is using one hand to press the modifier
> and the other to press the other key.


I would rather from an ergonomic view recommend "sticky keys/modifiers":

   http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/StickyModifiers

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Xah]

On Jul 31, 7:35 am, "Lennart Borgman (gmail)"
<lennart.borg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Xahwrote:
> > In touch typing, modifiers comes in pairs, such as Shift. The accepted
> > ergonomic way to press them is using one hand to press the modifier
> > and the other to press the other key.
>
> I would rather from an ergonomic view recommend "sticky keys/modifiers":
>
>    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/StickyModifiers

Btw, emacs package for sticky modifier is not necessary on the Mac.

In the Mac, just go to your System Preference, click on the Universal
Access (i.e. for the handicapped), and there you can setup sticky keys
system wide.

Mac has this before OSX too, since about early 1990s i think. (Also,
you can swap any modifiers to any other in OSX. Just go to sys pref,
keyboard & mouse, keyboard, modifier. For more detail, see
How to Swap Modifier Keys on OS X
http://xahlee.org/emacs/osx_swapping_modifier_keys.html
)

On OSX, you can actually setup arbitrary commands to keys much like
how you rebind keys in emacs. (However, they only work in Cocoa apps
and not perfectly.). See

How To Create Your Own Keybinding In Mac Os X
 http://xahlee.org/emacs/osx_keybinding.html

-----------------

On Windows, i thought sticky key pref exist that are part of the
Windows OS, but i haven't used Windows for many years now. Doesn't it
exist as part of the OS, Lennart?

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
>> I would rather from an ergonomic view recommend "sticky keys/modifiers":
>>
>>    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/StickyModifiers
> 
> Btw, emacs package for sticky modifier is not necessary on the Mac.
> 
> In the Mac, just go to your System Preference, click on the Universal
> Access (i.e. for the handicapped), and there you can setup sticky keys
> system wide.

Could you please enter that information on the wiki page?

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Xah]

On Jul 31, 9:45 am, "Lennart Borgman (gmail)"
<lennart.borg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Xahwrote:
> >> I would rather from an ergonomic view recommend "sticky keys/modifiers":
>
> >>    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/StickyModifiers
>
> > Btw, emacs package for sticky modifier is not necessary on the Mac.
>
> > In the Mac, just go to your System Preference, click on the Universal
> > Access (i.e. for the handicapped), and there you can setup sticky keys
> > system wide.
>
> Could you please enter that information on the wiki page?

i didn't look at that page before, thinking it was a elisp package. It
actually is just a page telling people how sticky key can be setup on
different OSes. Perhaps you are mocking me, but it already has info on
OSX. :)

Gee, you have to post this publicly and waste all these emacs lover's
time? :)

You and your strange emacs setup are incredible. Btw, how did you set
Cap Lock to M-x in Windows? (i'd like to have that in osx too)

You DO realize that most emacs lovers here can't bear the mention of
Microsoft Windows right? and you want emacs to conform to Window's UI
standards. What a crime it is.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
> On Jul 31, 9:45 am, "Lennart Borgman (gmail)"
> <lennart.borg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Xahwrote:
>>>> I would rather from an ergonomic view recommend "sticky keys/modifiers":
>>>>    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/StickyModifiers
>>> Btw, emacs package for sticky modifier is not necessary on the Mac.
>>> In the Mac, just go to your System Preference, click on the Universal
>>> Access (i.e. for the handicapped), and there you can setup sticky keys
>>> system wide.
>> Could you please enter that information on the wiki page?
> 
> i didn't look at that page before, thinking it was a elisp package. It
> actually is just a page telling people how sticky key can be setup on
> different OSes. Perhaps you are mocking me, but it already has info on
> OSX. :)

No, rather myself. I thought it was not there.

> Gee, you have to post this publicly and waste all these emacs lover's
> time? :)
> 
> You and your strange emacs setup are incredible. Btw, how did you set
> Cap Lock to M-x in Windows? (i'd like to have that in osx too)

(setq w32-enable-caps-lock nil)
(global-set-key [capslock] 'execute-extended-command)

> You DO realize that most emacs lovers here can't bear the mention of
> Microsoft Windows right? and you want emacs to conform to Window's UI
> standards. What a crime it is.

Frustration that is not too big is supposed to make you grow 
psychologically ;-)

>   Xah
> ∑ http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ☄
> 

can Cap Lock key be detected in emacs?

[Xah]

Xah Lee wrote:
«how did you set Cap Lock to M-x in Windows? (i'd like to have that in
osx too)»

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" wrote:
«
(setq w32-enable-caps-lock nil)
(global-set-key [capslock] 'execute-extended-command)
»

That's odd. I always thought Caps Lock isn't received at the
application level.

On my emacs, if i press Alt+x describe-key then Caps Lock, emacs
behaves as if no key has been pressed. (this is OSX 10.4.x, PC
keyboard, Carbon Emacs)

How can i get this to work in the Mac?

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: basic question: going back to dired

[Sean Sieger]

Xah <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

   Perhaps you are mocking me, but it already has info on
   OSX. :)

That wouldn't be Lennart's style; if you're thinking everyone's out
to get you, then they are.

   You and your strange emacs setup are incredible.

I appreciate Lennart's work everytime I have to start MS Windows.

   You DO realize that most emacs lovers here can't bear the mention of
   Microsoft Windows right? and you want emacs to conform to Window's UI
   standards. What a crime it is.

But what you want GNU Emacs to conform to is the `right, honest way?'