From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: AW: delete-selection-mode Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:07:55 -0700 Message-ID: <0726390D71674C4EB1561AF2D9527D66@us.oracle.com> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com><201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu><87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org><874okf8dep.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C0A70E50872@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com><4BA0CDF9.40707@online.de><76682E4761EA432EB929E5E199B0F92A@us.oracle.com><87wrxb57e1.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87sk7z571u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><81674B067AF84670A2EDDB0178E0C0CC@us.oracle.com><877hpa68ys.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><874oke4kor.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pr32pd9j.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268934191 9145 80.91.229.12 (18 Mar 2010 17:43:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:43:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 'David Kastrup' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Miles Bader'" , "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 18 18:43:07 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJkO-0007P3-Nf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:43:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38728 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJkL-0001KB-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJDu-00046u-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:09:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53362 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJDs-00045r-Rl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:09:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJDq-0005VD-9F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:09:28 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:29119) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJDl-0005U2-PL; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:09:21 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2IH9Jap015126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:09:21 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2HKLrGp032200; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:09:16 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt020.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 92582681268932075; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:07:55 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:07:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87pr32pd9j.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Thread-Index: AcrGQ9CzkMJ0VfhjQ4aTrpsdMGqr5gAa2iEA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4BA25E3F.007D:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122181 Archived-At: > > This will be a good occasion to get rid of the butt-ugly and > > bug-inducing code that implements the feature now. And it > > will provide the DEL part of delete-selection-mode. > > > > I'd be happy to also provide the self-insert behavior of > > delete-selection-mode, but at least this intermediate step > > sounds very good to me. > > > > The implementation should keep an eye towards generalizing it to > > self-insertion keys (i.e. maybe it should just use the code from > > delete-selection-mode). > > That all sounds perfect. > > The "DEL deletes" functionality seems the main thing; a mode > which only did that would probably be fine, and solve 95% of > the muscle-memory-from-other-apps issues. Why? How will that help users who expect the usual type-to-replace behavior? What's so special about DEL? IIUC, your proposal essentially binds DEL to `delete-region' when the region is active. I disagree that DEL amounts to 95%, or even 5%, of the use of an active region in other apps. DEL is simply one minor, special case of type-to-replace. Most of the time, users of other apps select text to replace it - THAT's the 95% or more case. Your proposal is a miniscule improvement, one baby step on the road to the d-s-mode behavior that newbies expect (and many oldbies prefer). What's the point of such a watered-down compromise? An active region should be active, including in the sense that most people expect: type-to-replace. If someone doesn't want the region to be active, there are trivial remedies: turn it off either temporarily (C-g) or permanently (turn off t-m-mode).