From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 00:06:01 +0300 Message-ID: <06d29dbd-0b33-8698-bcb8-c89368612f54@gutov.dev> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2147"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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Tue, 18 Apr 2023 17:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:260240 Archived-At: On 18/04/2023 23:56, João Távora wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:38 PM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > >> This particular one didn't have to, but it's a problem very >> characteristic of joining a strongly centralized project with ultimately >> one person having the last word in all major decisions. And it's not >> like Eli is being unreasonable: we do need a stability cutoff, and we're >> really long past it. These one-more-change kind of arguments repeat year >> over year, with reasonable, well-intentioned people on both sides. > > Yes. And here both people sides "one more change". The change that _did_ > make it in is more aggressive and more unstable than the one that didn't. Well, not really. It's by definition more conservative one. Problem is, it violates a practice established by third-party community outside of Emacs. >> Sure, and I agree, but I don't really see how to present that in terms >> Eli would feel suitable to accept. One "trick" that worked in the past >> was to somehow enumerate all potential execution flows (functions >> involved, etc) that would be affected by the change. > > Right. And IMO it's not a "trick", it's how it should be. It's hard to prove a > negative, but at least it should be attempted. Well, the patch I presented > (the one you +1'ed) makes it so that package-install keeps exactly its previous > behaviour unless its argument is one of (eglot use-package), which are arguments > that could not have ever been passed to that function as :core packages > in Emacs 28. M-x package-install RET seq or (package-install 'xref) keep EXACTLY > the same behaviour. It's very clear to see from the minimal patch. Perhaps a more structured/verbose outline of the same would help. Although apparently the example I was thinking of (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=37774#479 and the surrounding thread) occurred when the corresponding pretest hadn't started yet. >> I don't insist, not at all. It was just my own impression of what would >> constitute a reasonable Eglot release that we could be satisfied with >> having a large number of people use without upgrading, for years. Issues >> like blinking eldoc messages, or eldoc messages that can take up half >> the height of the window seem like things that we wouldn't want in it. > > The issue has existed and has been worked around successfully for a long > period of time. It's not actually a problem, it's a consequence of the > default values for eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p and max-mini-window-height, > both of which predate Eglot. So there is a workaround for it anyway, thanks for the reminder. > Of course I think the current behaviour is better. But it's also different so > I don't think we should backport that particular one. Even if so far the > only feedback we have had has been positive, it could well be that some > people _liked_ the half-the-window-height thing (after all their customization > options reflected that wish, even if by default). > > And by the way, not really half-the-window. I used this for a long time > without being much bothered by it. I guess it depends on the number of overloads for the function around point. >> Perhaps the second issue affects only a minority of servers, and I'm >> wrong to be worried. Because otherwise, I really don't understand why it >> hasn't been reported and fixed until recently. Not blaming you, just to >> be clear. > > It was reported a long time ago. By you and others. But there wasn't > the means -- or rather the energy from my part -- to fix it. I couldn't > just have truncated that information. So I enhanced ElDoc instead with > the :echo option. Aha, so the :echo thingy made it possible. Gotcha.