Clocktable from multiple files?

Clocktable from multiple files?

[cranreuch]

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Is there a way to make org-clock-report (C-c C-x C-r) and the various
clocktable update commands, process entries from more than one file (i.e.
more than just the current buffer)? It would be nice if it could simply look
through all files in org-agenda-files.

thx.

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Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 12, 2007, at 19:02, cranreuch wrote:

> Is there a way to make org-clock-report (C-c C-x C-r) and the various 
> clocktable update commands, process entries from more than one file 
> (i.e. more than just the current buffer)? It would be nice if it could 
> simply look through all files in org-agenda-files.
>
> thx.

No.

In fact, maybe the whole clocking stuff needs an overhaul at some point,
but right now I don't have time to do it.  I not sure in what direction 
to take this.
Maybe create a timeclock - compatible list from scanning the agenda 
buffers?
I still think that collecting the CLOCK entries in the outline does 
make a
lot of sense.  The clock table was a quick hack I once did, but 
apparently
not really though through very well.

John, maybe you have ideas about this?

Any volunteers for writing org-clock.el or something like that?

- Carsten

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Jason F. McBrayer]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> In fact, maybe the whole clocking stuff needs an overhaul at some
> point, but right now I don't have time to do it.  I not sure in what
> direction to take this.  Maybe create a timeclock - compatible list
> from scanning the agenda buffers?  I still think that collecting the
> CLOCK entries in the outline does make a lot of sense.  The clock
> table was a quick hack I once did, but apparently not really though
> through very well.

I can't volunteer to write anything at this point, but I do have some
comments.

I think accumulating CLOCK entries in the outline is The Right Thing.
It keeps the times with the tasks, and so forth, and clocking in and out
of tasks is really convenient.  What we're lacking right now are
flexible-enough ways of dealing with the information those entries
represent.  Right now, the clock table does everything I really need to
do, but not everything I would like to be able to do.

Here are some things that any future org-clock.el or similar ought to
be able to handle:

1. Including CLOCK entries from all org-agenda-files in its summaries
2. Including CLOCK entries from archive files associated with files used
   to construct its summaries.  Right now I can't archive completed
   projects because of the need to include them and their tasks in
   monthly reports, for example.
3. Conversely, limiting summaries to only a subtree (having a clock
   table per project, for example).  I don't need this right now, but
   someone consulting or freelancing for several clients probably would.

Maybe someone will get inspired by this :)   

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Bernt Hansen]

jmcbray@carcosa.net (Jason F. McBrayer) writes:

> I think accumulating CLOCK entries in the outline is The Right Thing.
> It keeps the times with the tasks, and so forth, and clocking in and out
> of tasks is really convenient.  What we're lacking right now are
> flexible-enough ways of dealing with the information those entries
> represent.  Right now, the clock table does everything I really need to
> do, but not everything I would like to be able to do.
>
> Here are some things that any future org-clock.el or similar ought to
> be able to handle:
>
> 1. Including CLOCK entries from all org-agenda-files in its summaries
> 2. Including CLOCK entries from archive files associated with files used
>    to construct its summaries.  Right now I can't archive completed
>    projects because of the need to include them and their tasks in
>    monthly reports, for example.
> 3. Conversely, limiting summaries to only a subtree (having a clock
>    table per project, for example).  I don't need this right now, but
>    someone consulting or freelancing for several clients probably would.
>

Here's how I'm currently using org-mode.  Maybe this will be useful to
someone.  Most of how I am currently working with org-mode was inspired
by John Wiegley's article that Carsten posted on the list recently.
Thanks to both of you for a great tool I use everyday!

I'm a consultant that bills by project and time.  I used to have lots of
org files (one per client) but that was too hard to deal with.  I wasn't
using archiving effectively and the files were getting too large.

I now have a single todo.org which has all my current tasks in it.  This
file is copiously sprinkled with #+ARCHIVE: and #+CATEGORY: lines for
organization.

My org file looks like this: (new tasks are entered with Remember and go
in * Tasks at the top)

,----[ todo.org ]
| * Tasks
| * Timelog
| #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :emphasize t :block today
| #+END:
| 
| * CLIENT1 - Timelog
| #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 4 :emphasize t :block thismonth
| #+END:
| * CLIENT1 - Project 1
| #+ARCHIVE: client1.org_archive::* Project 1
| #+CATEGORY: client1
| 
| * CLIENT2 - Timelog
| #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :emphasize t :block thismonth
| #+END:
| * CLIENT2 - Project 1
| #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project 1
| #+CATEGORY: client2
| * CLIENT2 - Project 2
| #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project 2
| #+CATEGORY: client2
| ...
| * CLIENT2 - Project n
| #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project n
| #+CATEGORY: client2
| 
| * Anniversaries and Holidays
| #+ARCHIVE: %s_archive::* Anniversaries and Holidays
| #+CATEGORY: Holiday
| * Appointments
| * Other Personal Tasks
| ...
`----

Running the clock summary (C-c C-x C-r) updates the first * Timelog
entry which gives me a summary for today for everything.

When I want summaries for CLIENT1 I collapse the buffer to level 1 tasks
only, select a region including the * CLIENT1 - Timelog and all
following CLIENT1 tasks then use narrow-to-region to show only those
tasks.  Now updating the clock table updates the * CLIENT1 - Timelog
table which gives me a view of this month.  I usually always look at
month ranges for clients for billing (either this month or last month)
but different clients need different maxlevel settings based on the
detail required for reporting.  The widen function restores the original
view with all tasks.

I find I use narrow-to-region and widen alot so I've bound them to
C-M-F9 and C-M-F10 respectively.  Keeping the * Timelog tasks for each
client means I don't have to manually create them every month to report
on the same thing as last time.

I archive all CLIENT1 tasks into a single archive file.  CLIENT2 has a
different archive file.  Non-client tasks are archived into the catchall
todo.org_archive file.

I have a * Timelog entry in the client archive files which reports on
last month so I can quickly check that I didn't accidentally move some
clock times from todo.org when I do my billing.  When my billing cycle
is complete at the end of the month I archive all eligible tasks then
start timing tasks for the next month.

This works great for me.

-Bernt

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Bastien]

jmcbray@carcosa.net (Jason F. McBrayer) writes:

> I can't volunteer to write anything at this point, but I do have some
> comments.

Same here.

> I think accumulating CLOCK entries in the outline is The Right Thing.

I think it's okay, but I guess lots of people (including me) don't care
about the detailed clocking history - I just need to know how much time
I spent on a task.

So a simple :CLOCK: property might be an alternative way to keep track
of all the clocking stuff. We could even refine this and have something
like a :CLOCKED-IN: property for tasks that last more than the duration
of an Emacs session (which equals the lifespan of an Org buffer :)

I would also make it possible to merge all the CLOCK: lines into a
single :CLOCK: property.

Then what we need is to make `org-clock-sum' and `org-clock-display'
handle the new :CLOCK: property so that the :org-clock-minutes property
is uptodate in headlines properties.

For multi-files timeclock reports, I guess collecting :org-clock-minutes
from headlines is the easy way... 

> Maybe someone will get inspired by this :)   

Sure!

-- 
Bastien

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[cranreuch]

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>  The clock table was a quick hack I once did, but apparently not really
though through very well.

I wouldn't say that. It's pretty cool in fact. Give yourself a break :-)

--

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Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 13, 2007, at 16:01, Jason F. McBrayer wrote:
> Here are some things that any future org-clock.el or similar ought to
> be able to handle:
>
> 1. Including CLOCK entries from all org-agenda-files in its summaries

This one is really needed, yes.  Will add this soon.

> 2. Including CLOCK entries from archive files associated with files 
> used
>    to construct its summaries.  Right now I can't archive completed
>    projects because of the need to include them and their tasks in
>    monthly reports, for example.

I am not so sure about this.  The whole idea about archiving is that
this project should no longer be used in all the list compilation by
org-mode.  So my feeling would be that you should keep that tree in
your work file until you no longer need it.  Also, with some files
having multiple archive files, this gets messy.

> 3. Conversely, limiting summaries to only a subtree (having a clock
>    table per project, for example).  I don't need this right now, but
>    someone consulting or freelancing for several clients probably 
> would.

Indeed, also very useful.  This will happen.

- Carsten

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 13, 2007, at 17:05, Bernt Hansen wrote:
>
> Here's how I'm currently using org-mode.  Maybe this will be useful to
> someone.

Yes, this is inspiring, thanks a lot.

>   Most of how I am currently working with org-mode was inspired
> by John Wiegley's article that Carsten posted on the list recently.
> Thanks to both of you for a great tool I use everyday!
>
> I'm a consultant that bills by project and time.  I used to have lots 
> of
> org files (one per client) but that was too hard to deal with.  I 
> wasn't
> using archiving effectively and the files were getting too large.
>
> I now have a single todo.org which has all my current tasks in it.  
> This
> file is copiously sprinkled with #+ARCHIVE: and #+CATEGORY: lines for
> organization.
>
> My org file looks like this: (new tasks are entered with Remember and 
> go
> in * Tasks at the top)
>
> ,----[ todo.org ]
> | * Tasks
> | * Timelog
> | #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :emphasize t :block today
> | #+END:
> |
> | * CLIENT1 - Timelog
> | #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 4 :emphasize t :block thismonth
> | #+END:
> | * CLIENT1 - Project 1
> | #+ARCHIVE: client1.org_archive::* Project 1
> | #+CATEGORY: client1
> |
> | * CLIENT2 - Timelog
> | #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :emphasize t :block thismonth
> | #+END:
> | * CLIENT2 - Project 1
> | #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project 1
> | #+CATEGORY: client2
> | * CLIENT2 - Project 2
> | #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project 2
> | #+CATEGORY: client2
> | ...
> | * CLIENT2 - Project n
> | #+ARCHIVE: client2.org_archive::* Project n
> | #+CATEGORY: client2
> |
> | * Anniversaries and Holidays
> | #+ARCHIVE: %s_archive::* Anniversaries and Holidays
> | #+CATEGORY: Holiday
> | * Appointments
> | * Other Personal Tasks
> | ...
> `----
>
> Running the clock summary (C-c C-x C-r) updates the first * Timelog
> entry which gives me a summary for today for everything.
>
> When I want summaries for CLIENT1 I collapse the buffer to level 1 
> tasks
> only, select a region including the * CLIENT1 - Timelog and all
> following CLIENT1 tasks then use narrow-to-region to show only those
> tasks.  Now updating the clock table updates the * CLIENT1 - Timelog
> table which gives me a view of this month.  I usually always look at
> month ranges for clients for billing (either this month or last month)
> but different clients need different maxlevel settings based on the
> detail required for reporting.  The widen function restores the 
> original
> view with all tasks.
>
> I find I use narrow-to-region and widen alot so I've bound them to
> C-M-F9 and C-M-F10 respectively.  Keeping the * Timelog tasks for each
> client means I don't have to manually create them every month to report
> on the same thing as last time.
>
> I archive all CLIENT1 tasks into a single archive file.  CLIENT2 has a
> different archive file.  Non-client tasks are archived into the 
> catchall
> todo.org_archive file.
>
> I have a * Timelog entry in the client archive files which reports on
> last month so I can quickly check that I didn't accidentally move some
> clock times from todo.org when I do my billing.  When my billing cycle
> is complete at the end of the month I archive all eligible tasks then
> start timing tasks for the next month.
>
> This works great for me.
>
> -Bernt
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Clocktable from multiple files?

[Jason F. McBrayer]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> On Sep 13, 2007, at 16:01, Jason F. McBrayer wrote:
>> 2. Including CLOCK entries from archive files associated with files
>> used
>>    to construct its summaries.  Right now I can't archive completed
>>    projects because of the need to include them and their tasks in
>>    monthly reports, for example.
>
> I am not so sure about this.  The whole idea about archiving is that
> this project should no longer be used in all the list compilation by
> org-mode.  So my feeling would be that you should keep that tree in
> your work file until you no longer need it.  Also, with some files
> having multiple archive files, this gets messy.

Yes, that's fair enough, and is essentially what I'm doing.
Eventualy, I'm going to have to figure out how to say "archive
everything with a CLOSED date before the beginning of the current
month."  I think someone posted something along these lines on the
list recently; I'll have to go back and look.

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |