From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Selection changes Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:21:25 -0700 Message-ID: <04B92DEADC9D46F38CB42B91679795DE@us.oracle.com> References: <87ocea2ax1.fsf@stupidchicken.com><4C40FCEC.9030404@harpegolden.net> <87pqym2a4r.fsf@catnip.gol.com><4C411552.40003@harpegolden.net> <87eif2n7d7.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <878w5a23ax.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279833805 4096 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 21:23:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:23:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David De La Harpe Golden' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Miles Bader'" , "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 23:23:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3Eb-0007RZ-1L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:23:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40534 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc3Ea-0000LH-2I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:23:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59416 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc3EU-0000L8-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:23:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3ET-0005lg-Bn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:23:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:51233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3EK-0005jI-Ao; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:23:00 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6MLMv5B026997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:22:58 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6MKd9ul014242; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:22:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 450793891279833685; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:21:25 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:21:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878w5a23ax.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Thread-Index: AcslYGYWz+oCfiuWQRSQ+CQc+7V6jwEfsIgg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4C48B6B1.0065:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127661 Archived-At: > Chong Yidong writes: > > But I think select-active-regions needs further > > improvement. Perhaps its default behavior should be as > > follows: for an active region created using > > shift-selection or mouse dragging, Emacs supplies the > > region text to primary. When such a region is > > deactivated, Emacs disowns primary (as some other apps > > do, tho not Firefox). For an active region created > > simply with C-SPC, no special x-selection handling should > > be performed. > > I don't like things that make selections magic depending on how they > were selected; it just makes the interface more confusing and > discourages people from learning new commands. > > A selection should be a selection, to the greatest extent possible > (there are some exceptions, like shift-selections auto-deselecting, > but that's much less confusing because it's an immediate and visually > obvious effect, and fits people's shift-select muscle-memory). I agree with Miles about that. I'll go further, on a different angle. I disagree with a change to the default behavior of selection/kill/copy/yank (with the mouse or keyboard). Period. The latest build I have of Emacs is completely broken wrt yanking with mouse-2 - see bugs 6689, 6694, 6701,.... I have not paid attention to this thread, but I cannot ignore a blown-away mouse. I don't know what problem you all think you're trying to fix, but AFAICT nothing needs fixing wrt select/kill/copy/yank, whether via keys or mouse. It ain't broke, so please stop trying to fix it. I use the kill ring, primary selection, and secondary selection all the time, and they all work just fine, thank you very much - both within Emacs and between it and other apps. Or they did until recently. There are so many real bugs that need fixing - many with solutions already provided. Why not start there, if you have the time and energy to fiddle? If you want to provide an optional (opt-in), _alternative_ behavior for select/kill/copy/yank (mouse or keyboard or both), then fine - go for it. Bring that up here as a _proposal_, to be discussed. No problem. Normal. But no such a change should be made to the _default_ behavior. I cannot understand how such changes are made willy nilly, without any real discussion. That's not the way Emacs development should proceed. When someone does propose a change here, it can be nigh unto impossible to get any agreement and the final OK for it. I understand that very well, believe me. But that does not mean that having commit access is a license to make whatever changes you like. And that applies to everyone, or it should. It's not kosher to avoid full proposal & discussion and just implement whatever you think is right. That doesn't respect the community, and it's not good development practice that leads to a good product. Just one opinion, of course.