From: Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com>
To: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
Cc: 68246@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>,
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Subject: bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 16:32:02 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <02EBD96A-B040-46CF-9ED2-775A6696E1CC@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALDnm53C1td1FobmU=BTMAX4i4iEj0W8_K+6JcbaW1X9amQb9A@mail.gmail.com>
> On Jan 20, 2024, at 2:16 AM, João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 07:04 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>> After it lands, derived-mode-p will cease to mean "A derived
>>> from B via defined-derived-mode, so you can trust hook for B
>>> runs in hook for A and a lot of other things". It will mean
>>> something else.
>>
>> Indeed, and it was not meant to mean what you suggest it should mean.
>
> Then pray tell. What will it mean exactly? This patch has no doc
> yet (last I saw).
>
>>> * if it lands, we should document very well what that new meaning
>>> of "<lang>-mode" is. Also make some "provided-mode-walk-parents"
>>> so that at least problem 2 can be solved, by string-matching
>>> the symbol name of what will now be an even more enshrined
>>> convention. As to problem 3, maybe, it can be written off to
>>> "major-mode-remap-alist" (which I doubt will ever see much
>>> adoption)
>>
>> Feel free to suggest improvements and clarifications to the
>> documentation in these matters.
>
> I don't understand the vision behind this patch. It has do doc
> yet. Despite your attempts to wrap this up and shut me up
> I'm trying to at least converse with the author to expound it.
> Often it's when trying to explain something in plain English
> that to see how suitable it is.
>
>>> * if it doesn't land, we should look at some solution that solves
>>> 1 2 and 3 cleanly. I think Dmitry's patch is a decent start.
>>
>> Since it will land, there's no need yet to look for alternatives.
>
> If you've already decided that, just install it and save
> us all some time.
>
>> We will consider alternatives or other ways to fix this when
>> we have data
>
> I've given you data: at least Eglot and markdown mode have brittle
> hacks this patch does nothing for. You have chosen to ignore it.
> Also I've explained how potentially dangerous this patch is to
> Eglot customizations.
>
>> We already use base modes where it makes sense. It sounds like your
>> opinion is that we should use it much more radically, with which I
>> disagree and will object to introduction of base modes that server no
>> useful purpose by themselves.
>
> So solving the common language-detection problem, deduplicating
> hooks and dir-locals is not serving a purpose "by oneself"?
> Indeed you make up an undefined high bar of "by oneselfness"
> you get to choose what clears it and doesn't. But it doesn't
> make your argument an argument.
[I’ve been loosely following the thread so this might have been brought up and I missed it]
IIUC Stefan’s patch is trying to use xxx-mode to represent “mode for xxx in general”, sort of like the keys in major-mode-remap-alist. And IIUC Joao and Dmitry are not very comfortable with it because (mode-A R mode-B) where R is derived-mode-p implicitly means mode-B runs mode-A’s hooks and major mode body, and this patch would break that, which would bring a lot of confusion.
Instead of using xxx-mode, can we set common-xxx-mode to the parent of both xxx-mode and xxx-ts-mode? Or maybe abtract-xxx-mode, or just xxx, the name doesn’t matter. The point is this is just a symbol and doesn’t have hooks and other implicit things a major mode have. It’s still a bit confusing, but it should be less confusing. We can also add a variable common-mode-list or abstract-mode-list so these symbols don’t seem to come out of nowhere.
Yuan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-01-21 0:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 146+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-01-04 22:11 bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-04 23:02 ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-04 23:41 ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:18 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-04 23:48 ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:59 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-05 0:35 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 0:43 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-05 7:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 11:27 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 15:16 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 18:02 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 18:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 23:20 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 23:51 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-06 0:16 ` João Távora
2024-01-06 4:08 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-06 14:36 ` João Távora
2024-01-06 15:50 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-06 22:22 ` João Távora
2024-01-07 6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 0:12 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 10:50 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 14:45 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 17:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14 2:19 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-14 3:10 ` João Távora
2024-01-14 4:00 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-14 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14 23:40 ` João Távora
2024-01-15 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 14:45 ` João Távora
2024-01-15 15:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 15:09 ` João Távora
2024-01-15 2:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 12:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 18:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 20:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 15:27 ` João Távora
2024-01-15 20:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 23:11 ` João Távora
2024-01-16 2:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16 11:06 ` João Távora
2024-01-17 2:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 10:20 ` João Távora
2024-01-18 0:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 17:08 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-18 5:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-18 14:17 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-18 19:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-18 21:24 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 1:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-19 12:43 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 12:53 ` João Távora
2024-01-19 13:19 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 14:01 ` João Távora
2024-01-19 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 22:47 ` João Távora
2024-01-20 7:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-20 10:16 ` João Távora
2024-01-21 0:32 ` Yuan Fu [this message]
2024-01-21 9:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-24 6:20 ` Yuan Fu
[not found] ` <jwvfrxt5e75.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <86v86ovp6j.fsf@gnu.org>
2024-03-09 15:39 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-20 5:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-14 6:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14 23:18 ` João Távora
2024-01-15 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 14:49 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 4:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-08 11:11 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 18:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 20:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 22:12 ` João Távora
2024-01-09 3:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 19:18 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-08 19:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 20:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09 3:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-16 2:32 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-16 23:29 ` João Távora
2024-01-17 0:02 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-17 0:49 ` João Távora
2024-01-17 3:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-19 5:12 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-20 5:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-20 7:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-21 0:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 19:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09 0:10 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 0:39 ` João Távora
2024-01-09 0:52 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 1:05 ` João Távora
2024-01-09 1:04 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 1:11 ` João Távora
2024-01-09 3:49 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 10:52 ` João Távora
2024-01-10 1:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 16:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-11 3:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09 4:49 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-09 7:24 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2024-01-09 1:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09 1:31 ` João Távora
2024-01-09 3:55 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 11:05 ` João Távora
2024-01-10 1:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 1:59 ` João Távora
2024-01-10 16:04 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-10 17:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 17:31 ` João Távora
2024-01-10 1:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 6:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-10 15:51 ` João Távora
2024-01-11 3:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16 2:35 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-16 10:34 ` João Távora
2024-01-16 17:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16 22:00 ` João Távora
2024-01-17 2:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 10:31 ` João Távora
2024-01-17 23:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-06 8:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06 8:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06 13:52 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 19:03 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-05 23:37 ` João Távora
2024-01-06 8:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06 3:19 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-06 3:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-06 4:16 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-07 6:59 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-06 14:54 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 18:16 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-05 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 18:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-05 19:11 ` Stefan Kangas
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