nndb.el requires tcp

nndb.el requires tcp

[Eli Zaretskii]

lisp/gnus/nndb.el has this fragment near line 60:

    (eval-and-compile
      (unless (fboundp 'open-network-stream)
	(require 'tcp)))

What is the reason for the conditional requrement, and what is the tcp
package it wants?

The reason I ask is that open-network-stream is not fboundp in the
MS-DOS port, so nndb.el cannot be byte-compiled, since the tcp package
is not there as well.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Simon Josefsson]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> lisp/gnus/nndb.el has this fragment near line 60:
>
>     (eval-and-compile
>       (unless (fboundp 'open-network-stream)
> 	(require 'tcp)))
>
> What is the reason for the conditional requrement, and what is the tcp
> package it wants?
>
> The reason I ask is that open-network-stream is not fboundp in the
> MS-DOS port, so nndb.el cannot be byte-compiled, since the tcp package
> is not there as well.

tcp.el was part of Emacs.  I've removed the expression from nndb.el in
Gnus CVS, thanks.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:50:18 +0200
> 
> "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > lisp/gnus/nndb.el has this fragment near line 60:
> >
> >     (eval-and-compile
> >       (unless (fboundp 'open-network-stream)
> > 	(require 'tcp)))
> >
> > What is the reason for the conditional requrement, and what is the tcp
> > package it wants?
> >
> > The reason I ask is that open-network-stream is not fboundp in the
> > MS-DOS port, so nndb.el cannot be byte-compiled, since the tcp package
> > is not there as well.

Should I remove the entire eval-and-compile expression in the Emacs
CVS?

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Simon Josefsson]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:50:18 +0200
>> 
>> "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > lisp/gnus/nndb.el has this fragment near line 60:
>> >
>> >     (eval-and-compile
>> >       (unless (fboundp 'open-network-stream)
>> > 	(require 'tcp)))
>> >
>> > What is the reason for the conditional requrement, and what is the tcp
>> > package it wants?
>> >
>> > The reason I ask is that open-network-stream is not fboundp in the
>> > MS-DOS port, so nndb.el cannot be byte-compiled, since the tcp package
>> > is not there as well.
>
> Should I remove the entire eval-and-compile expression in the Emacs
> CVS?

I think that would be the right thing.  I've done the same on the Gnus
V5-10 branch as well, now.  You could remove the duplicate (require
'cl) below the expression too.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Sep 10 2004, Simon Josefsson wrote:

> "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
[...]
>> Should I remove the entire eval-and-compile expression in the Emacs
>> CVS?
>
> I think that would be the right thing.  I've done the same on the Gnus
> V5-10 branch as well, now.  You could remove the duplicate (require
> 'cl) below the expression too.

Maybe it be better to install it only in Emacs CVS _or_ in v5-10 (Gnus
stable branch) and let it propagate to the other by Miles' arch
synching?  We should do whatever is more convenient for Miles, I
think.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Simon Josefsson]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:

> On Fri, Sep 10 2004, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>
>> "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> [...]
>>> Should I remove the entire eval-and-compile expression in the Emacs
>>> CVS?
>>
>> I think that would be the right thing.  I've done the same on the Gnus
>> V5-10 branch as well, now.  You could remove the duplicate (require
>> 'cl) below the expression too.
>
> Maybe it be better to install it only in Emacs CVS _or_ in v5-10 (Gnus
> stable branch) and let it propagate to the other by Miles' arch
> synching?  We should do whatever is more convenient for Miles, I
> think.

Right.  Exactly how does this work?  Is it fully automated?  Syncing
V5-10 and Emacs CVS automatically seems useful, but there are some
stuff in Gnus CVS for XEmacs compatibility that historically hasn't
been included in the Emacs Gnus version.  I don't know whether this
has been moved into Emacs CVS now though.  Several files in Gnus CVS
also says 'This file is part of FLIM' instead of 'This file is part of
Emacs', which presumably have to be updated when/if all those files
are added to Emacs.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Miles Bader]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 03:07:06PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > Maybe it be better to install it only in Emacs CVS _or_ in v5-10 (Gnus
> > stable branch) and let it propagate to the other by Miles' arch
> > synching?  We should do whatever is more convenient for Miles, I
> > think.

Thanks Reiner!

It's slightly easier for me if changes are installed on the Gnus v5-10
branch, from where I can propagate them to Emacs CVS.

> Right.  Exactly how does this work?  Is it fully automated?

No, but it's only a few simple commands for changes that don't generate any
conflicts (I probably _could_ automate it fully in that case, but I actually
like staying in the loop a bit so that I can catch any unexpected weirdness).

> Syncing V5-10 and Emacs CVS automatically seems useful, but there are some
> stuff in Gnus CVS for XEmacs compatibility that historically hasn't been
> included in the Emacs Gnus version.

I wouldn't worry about it; I think any such problems will be rare and small,
and easily enough fixed after the fact if they escape the casual checking I
do during merges.

I don't really think there's a problem with having a bit of XEmacs-specific
code in Emacs anyway if it makes maintaining Gnus much easier; again, if
something does become an issue, it can be addressed at that point.

-Miles
-- 
Ich bin ein Virus. Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.

[Gnus] @copying in {pgg,sieve}.texi; FLIM files (was: nndb.el requires tcp)

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Sep 10 2004, Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
[...]
>> Maybe it be better to install it only in Emacs CVS _or_ in v5-10 (Gnus
>> stable branch) and let it propagate to the other by Miles' arch
>> synching?  We should do whatever is more convenient for Miles, I
>> think.
[...]
> Syncing V5-10 and Emacs CVS automatically seems useful, but there
> are some stuff in Gnus CVS for XEmacs compatibility that
> historically hasn't been included in the Emacs Gnus version.  

Some XEmacs specific files have been left out.  But no compatibility
code in the other files was removed.  Doing so would make it very hard
to sync the versions.

> Several files in Gnus CVS also says 'This file is part of FLIM'
> instead of 'This file is part of Emacs', which presumably have to be
> updated when/if all those files are added to Emacs.

Yes, most probably.  This should also be changed in Gnus' CVS (v5-10
and trunk).  These are `hex-util.el' and `sha1.el' in Emacs and v5-10
and some more in the Gnus trunk.

Maybe the copyright parts (Invariant Sections, ...) in pgg.texi and
sieve.texi also need to be adjusted.  Maybe someone who knows more on
those issues could take a look into this.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

merge emacs Gnus changes (was: nndb.el requires tcp)

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Sep 10 2004, Miles Bader wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 03:07:06PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> > Maybe it be better to install it only in Emacs CVS _or_ in v5-10 (Gnus
>> > stable branch) and let it propagate to the other by Miles' arch
>> > synching?  We should do whatever is more convenient for Miles, I
>> > think.
>
> Thanks Reiner!
>
> It's slightly easier for me if changes are installed on the Gnus v5-10
> branch, from where I can propagate them to Emacs CVS.

Did/will you also propagate changes from the v5-10 branch to the trunk
in Gnus' CVS?  Or should the Gnus developers install those changes
manually in the v5-10 branch _and_ on the trunk?

>> Syncing V5-10 and Emacs CVS automatically seems useful, but there are some
>> stuff in Gnus CVS for XEmacs compatibility that historically hasn't been
>> included in the Emacs Gnus version.
>
> I wouldn't worry about it; I think any such problems will be rare and small,
> and easily enough fixed after the fact if they escape the casual checking I
> do during merges.

ACK.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: merge emacs Gnus changes (was: nndb.el requires tcp)

[Miles Bader]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 03:27:07PM +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
> > It's slightly easier for me if changes are installed on the Gnus v5-10
> > branch, from where I can propagate them to Emacs CVS.
> 
> Did/will you also propagate changes from the v5-10 branch to the trunk
> in Gnus' CVS?  Or should the Gnus developers install those changes
> manually in the v5-10 branch _and_ on the trunk?

My assumption (so far) is that all fixes on the v5-10 branch are already on
the trunk in some form (often a modified form of course).

-Miles
-- 
I'm beginning to think that life is just one long Yoko Ono album; no rhyme
or reason, just a lot of incoherent shrieks and then it's over.  --Ian Wolff

Re: merge emacs Gnus changes (was: nndb.el requires tcp)

[Miles Bader]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 09:38:26AM -0400, Miles Bader wrote:
> > Did/will you also propagate changes from the v5-10 branch to the trunk
> > in Gnus' CVS?  Or should the Gnus developers install those changes
> > manually in the v5-10 branch _and_ on the trunk?
> 
> My assumption (so far) is that all fixes on the v5-10 branch are already on
> the trunk in some form (often a modified form of course).

BTW I _can_ do such merges, but there should be some guideline.

-Miles
-- 
My spirit felt washed.  With blood.  [Eli Shin, on "The Passion of the Christ"]

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Kai Grossjohann]

Perhaps nndb.el should be marked as obsolete in some way.

Perhaps it could be included in the contrib directory in the Gnus
tarball, and omitted from Emacs.

nndb.el talks to a server called nndb (by John Heideman I believe?),
and I think that piece of Perl code isn't easy to find, anymore.  Is
there anyone actually using this?

What do people think?

Kai

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> nndb.el talks to a server called nndb (by John Heideman I believe?),
> and I think that piece of Perl code isn't easy to find, anymore.  Is
> there anyone actually using this?

I haven't heard of anybody using it in quite a while, so it should
probably be retired.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Richard Stallman]

nndb.el seems to be a part of Gnus.  Is it considered a current
and useful package by the Gnus developers?

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:05:25 +0200
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Perhaps nndb.el should be marked as obsolete in some way.

Perhaps it could be included in the contrib directory in the Gnus
tarball, and omitted from Emacs.

nndb.el talks to a server called nndb (by John Heideman I believe?),
and I think that piece of Perl code isn't easy to find, anymore.  Is
there anyone actually using this?

What do people think?

Kai



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Re: merge emacs Gnus changes (was: nndb.el requires tcp)

[Miles Bader]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 09:45:45AM -0400, Miles Bader wrote:
> > My assumption (so far) is that all fixes on the v5-10 branch are already on
> > the trunk in some form (often a modified form of course).
> 
> BTW I _can_ do such merges, but there should be some guideline.

I've merged all changes to date (v5-10 -> gnus trunk).

I assume there will probably be relatively few changes on the branch, so I'll
just merge anything I see in the future too (the main effort is eliminating
duplicates [especially in the ChangeLog], but that's not too hard with such a
low volume).

-Miles
-- 
Next to fried food, the South has suffered most from oratory.
  			-- Walter Hines Page

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Richard Stallman]

    I haven't heard of anybody using it in quite a while, so it should
    probably be retired.

Can we mark it as obsolete, as a first step, in such a way that
people will complain if they would miss it?

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I haven't heard of anybody using it in quite a while, so it should
>     probably be retired.
>
> Can we mark it as obsolete, as a first step, in such a way that
> people will complain if they would miss it?

Perhaps the way to deal with these kinds of things is to just keep it
in Emacs for the time being, but remove it from the Gnus
distribution.  Then we'll get told if somebody actually are still
using it, and can put it back into Gnus CVS if that turns out to be
the case.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: merge emacs Gnus changes

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Sep 18 2004, Miles Bader wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 09:45:45AM -0400, Miles Bader wrote:
>> > My assumption (so far) is that all fixes on the v5-10 branch are
>> > already on the trunk in some form (often a modified form of
>> > course).

This is the case for most fixes, of course.  After the release of
5.10.6 bug fixing was (mainly) done on the trunk.  Only in the last
few weeks bug fixes have been ported back to v5-10.

There are at least the following situations were such merges make
sense:

- New bug fixes committed by the Gnus developers.  E.g. my last two
  changes in v5-10.

- Changes from Emacs' repository (or did you already merge those in
  the Gnus trunk, too?)

- My next change: Adding ":version" to all new defcustoms.

  This will give a couple of rejects in gnus-sum.el, gnus-group.el and
  gnus-art.el.  I can resolve those manually in case you want to skip
  them.

>> BTW I _can_ do such merges, but there should be some guideline.
>
> I've merged all changes to date (v5-10 -> gnus trunk).
>
> I assume there will probably be relatively few changes on the
> branch, so I'll just merge anything I see in the future too (the
> main effort is eliminating duplicates [especially in the ChangeLog],
> but that's not too hard with such a low volume).

This makes sense, I think.  Thanks a lot!

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: merge emacs Gnus changes

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Sep 19 2004, Reiner Steib wrote:

> - My next change: Adding ":version" to all new defcustoms.
>
>   This will give a couple of rejects in gnus-sum.el, gnus-group.el and
>   gnus-art.el.  I can resolve those manually in case you want to skip
>   them.

Oops... I have committed this on the Gnus _trunk_ instead of the Gnus
v5-10 branch.  Probably it's better if I do the commit in the v5-10
branch, too.  Miles, unless you tell me otherwise, I will do this
tomorrow.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: merge emacs Gnus changes

[Miles Bader]

On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 09:40:37PM +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
> - Changes from Emacs' repository (or did you already merge those in
>   the Gnus trunk, too?)

Yes

> - My next change: Adding ":version" to all new defcustoms.
> 
>   This will give a couple of rejects in gnus-sum.el, gnus-group.el and
>   gnus-art.el.  I can resolve those manually in case you want to skip
>   them.

No thanks, patch conflicts are no worse than worrying about special cases ...
:-)

-Miles
-- 
Yo mama's so fat when she gets on an elevator it HAS to go down.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Richard Stallman]

    Perhaps the way to deal with these kinds of things is to just keep it
    in Emacs for the time being, but remove it from the Gnus
    distribution.  Then we'll get told if somebody actually are still
    using it, and can put it back into Gnus CVS if that turns out to be
    the case.

Ok.

Re: nndb.el requires tcp

[Kai Grossjohann]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I haven't heard of anybody using it in quite a while, so it should
>     probably be retired.
>
> Can we mark it as obsolete, as a first step, in such a way that
> people will complain if they would miss it?

I think Gnus 5.9 didn't have nndb.el, either.  So why not remove it
from the Emacs CVS?  Emacs users won't have less than they had before.

In the Gnus CVS, it could be moved from the lisp to the contrib
directory.  This means that it is still there, but not automatically
found.  This means that we will get questions from people who miss it.

Kai