From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: e and pi Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:55:09 -0700 Message-ID: <01D72FFCE398424FAE945D3CD0DCDA6C@us.oracle.com> References: <4C939D97.7090501@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1284764124 31987 80.91.229.12 (17 Sep 2010 22:55:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:55:24 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Emacs Devel'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 18 00:55:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owjpy-0007r6-21 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 00:55:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45409 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Owjpx-0006TO-6I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:55:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38824 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Owjpf-0006M4-Pd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:55:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owjpe-0006hq-Q4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:55:03 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:47007) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owjpe-0006ha-I2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:55:02 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o8HMsxgc011352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:55:01 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o8HLIYh5027317; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:54:59 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 614642831284764061; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:54:21 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.112) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:54:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: ActWtfzEqlF2qDzvRhCCW2mSFQerwgAAZlDg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130370 Archived-At: > > why does the constant e exist in the first place? > > Beats me: it's only used at one place in emacs/lisp. > But that's what we have to live with, Why? This seems like a good case for turning the page if there ever was one. These names never should have been used for global constants. Pretty much everyone agrees with that and has agreed for a long time. This has only caused problems/confusion. It will continue to do so. There is no good reason not to get rid of this now. Any code that wants to use a shorter name can bind one locally to the new, more verbose name. No big deal. And that includes any 3rd-party code that the change might break. This is a smaller break than many that you guys effect from time to time. Just do it and don't look back. The following 2007 thread is enlightening. See what you all said 3 years ago. ;-) - http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-02/msg00414.html But for some reason, that Web page only shows a small part of the thread (a bug?). This link shows some more: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-02/msg00432.html To get all of the thread you probably need to look at a Date sort: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-02/index.html FWIW - what I suggested way back then for `e': > `numeric-constant-e', and adopt that (or similar) as the > convention for numeric constants: `numeric-constant-pi', etc. > > However, I still prefer, in descending order or preference: > > 1. (exp 1) ; that is, drop the variable altogether > 2. (e); that is, make it a function that does (exp 1) or > picks up the memoized value after doing (exp 1 once). And to Eli's (2007) complaint that he wants the convenience of just typing `e': EZ> Please don't: I frequently use Emacs to calculate trigonometric EZ> expression; typing these monster names would make it very hard EZ> for me to do that. > > Very hard for you? Make a local binding. If you need a short > name for interactive or local program use, define one. I see no > reason to dedicate `e' and `pi' for this uncommon use (uncommon > in both Emacs-Lisp files and interactive Emacs use). I still feel that's right: anyone or any library that wants to use a short name can easily bind one.