From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: OT: threats to Free Software (was: AW: Fwd: CEDET sync) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:07:55 -0500 Message-ID: <0183F1F1-9B46-451B-A017-157329CECBCA@gmail.com> References: <86bpf7q3fc.wl%lluis@ginnungagap.pc.ac.upc.edu> <87wrxvyijr.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4B8C42E2.3080308@siege-engine.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09227D1F24@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <878wabxg0x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mxyrhxq8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87635eycga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hboyhfnt.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87zl2qwsgk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-5--649816609" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267569023 31300 80.91.229.12 (2 Mar 2010 22:30:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:30:23 +0000 (UTC) To: "emacs-devel@gnu.org discussions" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 02 23:30:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmabX-00084L-MA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:30:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32772 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmabW-00084p-7n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:30:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NmaHi-0002Gh-4T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:09:46 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52132 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmaGg-0001qo-BM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:09:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmaG8-0000Ow-GD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:08:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]:40250) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmaG8-0000Of-A6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:08:08 -0500 Original-Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so723173bwz.26 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:08:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to:x-pgp-agent:x-mailer; bh=slYC81TFxuae2N1t8pTJRzMD/c1odG28cdnGigKaFuw=; b=ecxAiCd+DMbMIC0RDyIl+xDfh1ZyhOpvTPja49xXviE3e7HIF8n1lniCXimDCKSF2U m3Ux6LDtzR2lgjiGK62Pmnh/MkkvkgP7pQtOJilpR0BjIFL6sjN9+X/xLKu3A5z1GJj5 m+MnF8s+vwiU8WDtV+sERkhrgm+ByNJROyMVk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-pgp-agent :x-mailer; b=LDSRlpkYXoeFW7B8CuC8QvQP7mld+WiWiaROWwtncVHwi7IUHEVZCL5lF6ohbyZWIr LoxIeHROWubaF9APLAn67dp+9SkIpRdqR/MrhuzDfrFq8tvqj8qVnejuUhYYhyveQLeq /BZRSEVTE2Fip3FwQVX8ODGkPMc/3g9wxuTKU= Original-Received: by 10.103.84.17 with SMTP id m17mr66311mul.6.1267567685830; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:08:05 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from scarlett.psy.cmu.edu (SCARLETT.PSY.CMU.EDU [128.2.249.106]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g1sm26383613muf.30.2010.03.02.14.08.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:08:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.2.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121580 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-5--649816609 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mar 2, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I think the real threat the FSF's ideals is that computers are being > split into two camps: > - cell-phones > - web-services > there are still some things in the middle (laptops/desktops) where = users > can run Free Software, but the tendency is pretty clear. One may dislike the lack of freedom on a platform like the iPhone, but = it is worthwhile to consider why the platform is successful (as in: = popular). Potential reasons:=20 1. The applications are highly usable, reliable, polished and cheap. = The marketplace allows customers to read and publish reviews, and a = ranking system to endorse interesting useful apps. The review system = put in place by Apple ensures that apps are relatively free of bugs, = standards-compliant (UI and API standards) and usable. When developers = have their apps reviewed, theory even get free feedback. Also, the = middleware (Apple's CocoaTouch/iPhoneOS frameworks) are tested, = reliable, well-documented, easy-to-use and there are easy-to-learn = development/debug tools. The middleware provided by the iPhone OS (and also by OS X) is so = extensive and reliable that it competes well with the "bazaar" of free = libraries and and other code. Think NSSpellChecker vs. ispell/aspell, = or CoreImage vs. ImageMagick/libpng/etc. 2. There is a working revenue model in place that gives application = developers their deserved financial rewards. Per-hour wages are around = US$150 as far as I know. Even developers who appreciate the ethical = considerations of writing free and non-free software have to pay the = mortgage, feed their kids, get a health plan (or they even want to enjoy = life in their own Tesla sports car or their own aircraft). There are further hardware-related and business-strategy related = reasons, which may be less relevant for our agenda. Perhaps there is = something to be learned for free software from the above two points. = See also Lennart's point w.r.t libraries. --Apple-Mail-5--649816609 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkuNjEAACgkQYotoJUVQB4L1GACgxe2ogp79bAJxjVBog+J+caNZ AyMAn0v4vkwwjGgGwcOnkpn6nQcP6BXO =AUxS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-5--649816609--