From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2473: usability issues on emacs's describe-mode Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:58:59 -0800 Message-ID: <00d001c99937$5c745a70$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: Reply-To: Drew Adams , 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235779496 14060 80.91.229.12 (28 Feb 2009 00:04:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah@xahlee.org To: , <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 28 01:06:10 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LdChn-0005KI-HJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:05:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39998 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCgQ-0000ks-Nr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCgB-0000Yw-8G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCg9-0000Wf-8M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41866 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCg8-0000WP-Uy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:60750) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LdCg8-00018N-59 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:40 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1S03cqF021154; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:03:38 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n1S00BRo020046; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:00:11 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:00:10 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2473 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2473-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2473.123577914719471 (code B ref 2473); Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:00:10 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2473) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Feb 2009 23:59:07 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RNx4Ym019438 for <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:59:05 -0800 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n1S002QR012872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:00:04 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt700.oracle.com (acsmt700.oracle.com [141.146.40.70]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n1RNwulB020149; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:58:57 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.72.147) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:58:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcmZNWtXZxUwf3hZTdqDw8s1Ali+wQAAUsJQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: X-Source-IP: acsmt700.oracle.com [141.146.40.70] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.49A87E3F.0189:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:03:42 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:25816 Archived-At: > I see a 3rd way: make the buffer present an expandable > list of modes, starting with just 2 items: the current major modes and > "minor modes", e.g. similar to what we do in Speedbar, or maybe in Outline Mode > (under "Hide Sublevels"). In ASCII art: > > + Major Mode: RMAIL Mode > + Minor Modes > > Using hiding is a good idea -- thanks. > > I think that partcular way would be inconvenient. Specifically, it > would be a hassle to initially hide the major mode documentation. > That is what users most often want to see; making them type a command > to expose it would be a gratuitous hassle. > > So I suggest putting the partly-hidden minor mode list first, > followed by the totally visible major mode documentation. I misread what Eli wrote. I thought he suggested showing the major-mode info, by default. That is what I would prefer: * Use expandable/contractable entries for each mode (including the major mode). * Expand the major mode info, by default. * Put the major mode entry *before* the minor mode entries (like it is now). IOW, I disagree with Richard about the order - keep the major mode first. We've already discussed this and decided to put minor-mode info after major mode info. That's TRT, IMO.