From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "grischka" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar deficiency Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:56:18 +0200 Message-ID: <006d01c7ae7b$2516a540$d10990d4@j4f3n1> References: <002201c7ae61$5d13fc00$d10990d4@j4f3n1> <87lkemki35.fsf@ambire.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181822293 3862 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2007 11:58:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:58:13 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 14 13:58:12 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hynxq-0008Ea-UN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:58:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hynxq-0001WC-D4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:58:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hynxm-0001W7-UW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:58:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hynxl-0001Vv-Dj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hynxl-0001Vs-A2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hynxk-0003FY-LX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Jun 2007 11:58:02 -0000 Original-Received: from dialin-145-254-069-031.pools.arcor-ip.net (EHLO j4f3n1) [145.254.69.31] by mail.gmx.net (mp038) with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 13:58:02 +0200 X-Authenticated: #18588216 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19ta5kzMYVtr7+mLD9myrAeVdPFaauE96/dvLstzh ADn3JiXy+YcLM1 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72856 Archived-At: > i think the point is that a different metaphor pleases other > people. if the mechanisms that support your preferred metaphor > cannot support another, that is a deficiency in the generality of > those mechanisms. > > "but they were not designed to be general." > > art of design is finding balance between undesired (maintenance > burden) and desired (customizable) generality. it is ok to be > artistically deficient (most of us are so by default!), but there > is no escaping the art critics -- they are everywhere. > > thi Simple and clear does not mean artistically deficient. Often the contrary is true. I personally think the GUI designers knew what they were doing. Nobody wants to see the same scrollbars behave differently in every other application. Why not be realistic? Do you think scrollbar toolkits will change anytime near in the future? If not, what is the point to spend time in nagging at other peoples decisions. In the meantime, whats with emacs scrolling through inlined images, varying fontheights, etc. Sooner or later you will need a better internal infrastructure, and once you have it driving the standard scrollbars will be no problem at all, either. -- grischka