From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: customizing key definitions with Customize Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 01:01:40 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01c8b72b$1361c370$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <000301c8b39e$ded16a50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><003701c8b438$9d6e9f20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><87r6c75brc.fsf@jurta.org> <87od79sttq.fsf@jurta.org> <002701c8b646$afedc3a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1210924933 12262 80.91.229.12 (16 May 2008 08:02:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 16 10:02:46 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jwutn-0005Tt-Aa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:02:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37939 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jwut3-0005Qj-V0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jwusy-0005QN-2U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jwusw-0005QA-Ha for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60769 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jwusw-0005Q7-EW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:30534) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jwusq-0006nx-1X; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:44 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jwusp-0006U2-CF; Fri, 16 May 2008 04:01:43 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m4G81f9M013271; Fri, 16 May 2008 03:01:41 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m4FHke5J019461; Fri, 16 May 2008 02:01:40 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3673484151210924898; Fri, 16 May 2008 01:01:38 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.65.168) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 16 May 2008 01:01:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Aci2swPY10YdN9DdTl2YHY+/yx/BNgAR8PWQ X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:97245 Archived-At: > handle it as I suggested: customize an option. A keymap-valued > symbol is just a variable. Either such a variable could itself > be made a user option or, as I showed, a separate but > corresponding user option can be created. Both approaches can > be treated the same way (e.g. as I indicated); it depends on > what we want. > > If we want a given keymap variable itself to be completely > customizable (i.e., for all of its keys), then we can just > make it a defcustom of the sort I indicated. If we want some > keymap variables not to be options, then we need not > use defcustom for them. > > Now it seems you are saying that the _code_ should choose whether the > user should see the entire keymap or just his changes. Don't know what you mean by that. What I meant was that it could be useful for code (e.g. a library, built-in or 3rd-party) to decide whether and how much of a given keymap should be customizable, by default. I'm talking possibilities, not "should". I can see some use value in not always presenting a user, by default, with a complete keymap to customize. That's all. That doesn't mean we couldn't also provide a way for a user to go ahead and customize the whole keymap. I'm thinking of user convenience and possible confusion. > We were already aware of that possibility, but it has an obvious > drawback. That is why I suggested that we instead let the _user_ > choose one or the other, for each keymap. I'm not sure we're saying something different. Nothing would prevent a user from customizing a complete keymap. But a library might want to (also) give users a lite keymap option that only shows some of the keys in a map. Anyway, in the approach I outlined, the flexibility is there to do both.