From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs 22.2.91 pretest Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:30:55 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c90933$d421b250$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> References: <87vdxnqza2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <48B56BFA.6000404@gnu.org><000801c90859$13507000$c2b22382@us.oracle.com><48B5729A.5080004@gnu.org><000901c9085f$a9341d50$c2b22382@us.oracle.com><48B58AE7.5020506@gnu.org><001601c90869$45675d00$c2b22382@us.oracle.com><87sksqz7ov.fsf@cyd.mit.edu><002001c9086d$55d723b0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219944713 5839 80.91.229.12 (28 Aug 2008 17:31:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:31:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Jason Rumney' To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Miles Bader'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 28 19:32:46 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KYlMJ-000115-0n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:32:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52148 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KYlLK-00031O-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:31:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KYlLF-00030z-VB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:31:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KYlLE-00030b-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:31:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55280 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KYlLE-00030Q-1X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:31:28 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:19652) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KYlL2-0004YO-G0; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:31:17 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7SHUpni029437; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:30:51 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt706.oracle.com (acsmt706.oracle.com [141.146.40.84]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7SHUmos026890; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:30:49 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:30:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: thread-index: AckJJxzmOdh1ojyhRBSeLqGyVz2pZQAAkqZQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103077 Archived-At: > >> No, the problem is not with IE, but with users who decide > >> to use it. > > > > Does anyone actually _decide_ to use IE...? > > Depends on whether they are allowed to install an alternative, > whether they know there are alternatives, and whether you > consider awareness of the choice to be a necessary requirement > for there to be a decision. > > In the case of Drew, the only excuse I could imagine is if > he's working on a machine where he's not allowed to install > an alternative. > > Stefan "who has used IE several times in the past, > but only ever to download PuTTY or Firefox" I've ignored this silliness so far, but since Drew's use of IE seems to be important to you, FWIW: * I have several "alternatives" installed, including PuTTY and Firefox. And I use them. * I work in an environment where some of the intranet tools that I use work only or best with IE. This is a reason (not an excuse) that I and thousands of others who use those tools on that intranet use IE. * In that same environment, however, I and others also use tools that work only or best with Firefox or Thunderbird or any number of other browsers or mail clients. So we use those as well. (Yes, this juggling can be inconvenient.) * I happened to be using IE when I visited that GNU Emacs page. However, Firefox in fact exhibits the same symptom in this case, at least for me: ^L shows as a square box. So this minor problem is due not only to IE. Bad Firefox - go to your corner. * I don't need you to imagine excuses for me. But feel free, of course, to imagine anything you like. ;-) * I don't need you to excuse me, Father, for using IE. An ivory-tower, holier-than-thou attitude has no effect on at least some of us in the fields below who are not religious. The use of non-"alternative" browsers and other tools might be a reality you want to change, or perhaps even one that you ignore or whose existence you deny, but it is currently a reality none the less.