From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23006: 25.0.92; Loading Tramp breaks pcomplete in eshell-mode Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0023280a-9ffb-4460-bd78-52fd6be6a726@default> References: <871t7d4ion.fsf@gmx.de> <87oaagi128.fsf@gmx.de> <877fh0hovs.fsf@gmx.de> <756f60a7-bdf9-a806-b9d6-dbf17f0ebaab@yandex.ru> <87y49gg9sm.fsf@gmx.de> <845ef936-dec1-eac9-db2a-f2bb25f3a830@yandex.ru> <87egb8faxv.fsf@gmx.de> <8760wj3eks.fsf@gmx.de> <8760wj4jvp.fsf@gmx.de> <871t7650th.fsf@gmx.de> <87io0i32sq.fsf@gmx.de> <871t752nme.fsf@gmx.de> <87bn69uouo.fsf@gmx.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1458492025 27089 80.91.229.3 (20 Mar 2016 16:40:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:40:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , 23006@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: Michael Albinus Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 20 17:40:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOh-0000uA-7U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:40:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53681 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOg-0005pp-Cr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:40:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41739) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOc-0005nJ-1V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:40:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOY-0005go-PW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:40:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:58625) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOY-0005gh-LJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:40:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgOY-00089J-C3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:40:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23006 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23006-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23006.145849194231250 (code B ref 23006); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:40:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23006) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2016 16:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgNa-00087o-4V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:23747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahgNY-00087U-Ca for 23006@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:39:00 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2KGcrbG008449 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:38:54 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2KGcruc002456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:38:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2KGcqwo011486; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:38:53 GMT In-Reply-To: <87bn69uouo.fsf@gmx.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:115152 Archived-At: > > Of course, it's possible I'm missing something big here, in > > which case I apologize. But my impression from what I've seen > > so far is that you are now digging into the weeds in territory > > where Tramp does not really belong. >=20 > Maybe you are right, and I'll happily discuss this. But think about the > difference of "a connection has already been established to a host", and > "no connection has been established to a host". Tramp shall support file > name completion at least in the first case. Yes, but I don't see how that contradicts what I said. Tramp should (I think) always interpret non-nil `non-essential' as an inhibition to prompt. If there is already a connection then presumably (hopefully) Tramp would not prompt anyway, regardless of the value of `non-essential'. > I don't know whether completion packages want to go into the business > of deciding this question. They are not _required_ to decide it. But if they set/bind `non-essential' to non-nil then I think Tramp should consider that they _have_ decided it - they've decided that Tramp should not prompt. > Therefore, there must be a trade-off between completion > packages and Tramp in order to decide whether to complete. I think the trade-off is here: When `non-essential' is nil then Tramp gets to decide (e.g., depending on whether there is already a connection - or the phase of the moon, for that matter). When `non-essential' is non-nil, Tramp does not get to decide - the decision has been made that Tramp must not prompt. Again, though, I'm no expert on any of this. Maybe there are legitimate reasons why Tramp should sometimes prompt even when `non-essential' is non-nil. But if there are then they are beyond my (current) understanding. > Anyway, the purpose of *this* bug report is that non-essential hasn't > been bound, and nobody could explain to me why it is wrong to bind it in > pcomplete.=20 I see. Sorry for intruding here then. I have nothing to say about whether pcomplete should bind `non-essential' to non-nil. That's apparently a question about pcomplete behavior and not about Tramp behavior in the face of non-nil `non-essential'. > I would like to fix *this* problem in the bug report, and > discuss proper usage of non-essential somewhere else, > in emacs-devel or another bug report. Otherwise, we loose focus. Agreed. Sorry if my messages here were not helpful. I would like to know, though, whether you agree generally that non-nil `non-essential' should inhibit prompting by Tramp. If you don't then maybe we can discuss it off line or in emacs-devel. I'd like to understand that better, as (I think) I need to know how to control such prompting in my code. I thought that it was sufficient to bind `non-essential' to non-nil to prevent prompting.