From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "grischka" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar deficiency Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:52:33 +0200 Message-ID: <002201c7ae61$5d13fc00$d10990d4@j4f3n1> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181811236 29984 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2007 08:53:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:53:56 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 14 10:53:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hyl5V-0006wp-0t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:53:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyl5U-0007H3-A9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:53:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyl59-00078Q-NV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:53:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyl57-00077V-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:53:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyl57-00077F-DG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:53:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hyl56-0002Ki-Py for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:53:29 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Jun 2007 08:53:26 -0000 Original-Received: from dialin-212-144-009-209.pools.arcor-ip.net (EHLO j4f3n1) [212.144.9.209] by mail.gmx.net (mp049) with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 10:53:26 +0200 X-Authenticated: #18588216 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19U5/w1Hf5Ub2xWTdP1VEFdZWGbk5wK6pQidRla9w Xfop9XYjLSPm+Z X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72848 Archived-At: > > is this change intentional? > > it looks like a bug to me... > I'm pretty sure it's intentional. It's not perfect, but the perfect > behavior (which you get with the non-toolkit build) tends to be difficult > to get with current toolkits because toolkit writers are boneheaded: they > prevent applications from doing some very useful things in order to force > them into a predefined mould which of course doesn't fit all. Cheap propaganda. The truth is that current emacs' idea of scrolling is just too simple minded than that it could drive a standard scrollbar correctly. > PS: Basically, they want to enforce limitations of the physical metaphor, > rather than let people benefit from the fact that it's only a metaphor and > thus doesn't need to suffer from the same limits. Only that the limitations which you complain are part of the means by which the metaphor is created in the first place. It's like with a game and its rules. The game doesn't "suffer" from the rules, the game is the rules. > Soon they'll ask for mouses with feedback so the user has to make > a physical effort proportional to the size of the text/window when > sliding the thumb. Next thing you know, the scrollbars will wear out > and will need regular maintenance so they don't get wedged. Uh, do I live in future? Emacs' bars _were_ wedged last I tried :) -- grischka