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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Sascha Wilde'" <wilde@sha-bang.de>,
	"'Chong Yidong'" <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' <acm@muc.de>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Transient Mark Mode on by default
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:46:06 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <002001c88df0$158a9410$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2iqzbri6f.fsf@kenny.sha-bang.de>

> I have to state that I'm very skeptical about that "new users"
> argument.

I agree. Such an argument can only go so far, and it needs context.

> Granted: it will help people coming from usual gui-driven
> editors to "feel at home" -- but on the other hand I suspect that many
> of this "oh I know this" features prevent new users from learning the
> "Emacs way" of things, which IMNSHO is at least worth knowing it.
> 
> Further more, I recall from my newbie times, that being forced to look
> at the manual for some rather basic features I expected from an editor
> like Emacs to have, actually helped me, as it made me come across some
> of the less obvious features early.
> 
> In short: a user who quickly believes to know how an elaborated tool
> works is likely to miss something important.

I agree.

Personally, I'm in favor of TMM mode or delete-selection mode as the default
because I feel they are (1) close to what newbies are used to, but also (2) good
for many (most?) experienced users as well. 

It is #2 that makes me not be in favor of CUA selection mode or PC selection
mode as the default: my impression is that TMM and delete-selection mode fit the
rest of Emacs better. (I am no expert on the various selection modes, however.)

We should hold out a hand to newbies, but we should also nudge them along the
path to some of the best ways of doing things with Emacs. We should not just
emulate inferior environments that newbies might be used to. We can disagree
about some of those "best ways" to use Emacs, but we might also agree about
some.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-03-24 20:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 152+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-03-23 23:00 Transient Mark Mode on by default Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 10:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 11:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 13:06   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-24 13:28   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 13:57   ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-24 15:05   ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 15:15     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 20:09     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 20:32       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 21:02         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 18:31           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-30 19:19             ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-30 19:34               ` Peter Danenberg
2008-03-30 19:42               ` paul r
2008-03-30 19:47                 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:24                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 20:29                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:37                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-31  3:10                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  7:48                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  9:42                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  9:18                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-30 21:51                   ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-30 22:16                   ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  7:46                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  8:00                       ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  8:07                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 19:45               ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:29                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 22:42                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:11                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:50               ` William Xu
2008-03-31  3:23                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  3:36                   ` William Xu
2008-03-31 16:25               ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 18:08                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  0:20                   ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-01  0:40                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-04-01  1:24                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  1:26                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-04-01  6:14                       ` David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:34                         ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 13:53                           ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-02 16:27                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 17:34                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 18:05                               ` Drew Adams
2008-04-02 22:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 20:27                               ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 21:29                                 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-06 10:09                           ` cua-selection-mode by default (was: Transient Mark Mode on by default) David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:04                       ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:05                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:53                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-02  7:45                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-24 22:34         ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  1:45       ` Bastien
2008-03-25  1:41     ` Bastien
2008-03-24 17:28   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-24 19:54     ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:36       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 20:57         ` paul r
2008-03-24 21:04           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:42             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:23           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-29  9:18             ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 22:28           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:01             ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:11             ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:34               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 23:57                 ` paul r
2008-03-25  1:54       ` Bastien
2008-03-25 11:25         ` paul r
2008-03-25 23:49           ` Bastien
2008-03-26  8:49             ` paul r
2008-03-24 22:15     ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-24 22:47       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-24 23:29         ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:33           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:37           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:06         ` Honoring traditional defaults Bastien
2008-03-25  2:23           ` Bastien
2008-03-25  3:00           ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-25  5:23         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  7:21           ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode onbydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-25 19:36             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25 21:38         ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:42           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 22:26           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient MarkMode " Drew Adams
2008-03-25 23:53             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-26  1:49               ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 22:28           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode " paul r
2008-03-25 23:31             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-31 16:24             ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 21:12               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-02  2:53                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 11:15                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-31 22:06               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:22       ` Honoring traditional defaults Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:38         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 12:23           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-25  5:17         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:12       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 20:53       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:00         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-26  1:55         ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-26  7:01           ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Drew Adams
2008-03-26  6:54         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-29  9:52       ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 18:40   ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 19:09     ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 20:16       ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 20:40         ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:55           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25  3:21           ` Evans Winner
2008-03-24 20:46         ` Drew Adams [this message]
2008-03-24 21:47       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25  0:29         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  0:38           ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  8:16           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-24 22:27       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:07         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  1:50       ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-25  4:06         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25  7:07           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:23             ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 13:24               ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25 13:36             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25 14:19               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-26  4:47           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-27  2:53             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-27 14:08               ` paul r
2008-03-25  7:14         ` Jan Djärv
2008-03-25 12:37           ` René Kyllingstad
2008-03-24 22:10     ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44       ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  0:39         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-25  1:17           ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  3:07             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  7:07               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  8:28       ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 21:01         ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-26  0:50           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:12     ` Bastien
2008-03-25  2:50       ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-29  9:01   ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-31 22:48     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-01  0:14       ` Sebastian Rose
2008-04-01  1:09         ` Mike Mattie
2008-04-01  1:16         ` Mike Mattie
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-04-01 11:29 Robert J. Chassell

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