From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Installer for MS Windows Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:06:10 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <001801c48a37$995d27f0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> References: <001401c478de$908a92d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <1091508072.20683.201576204@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4111491A.4090601@runestig.com> <4111D8D4.1040506@runestig.com> <1091693906.8538.201741376@webmail.messagingengine.com> <001d01c47afa$c1f5f170$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <003e01c48946$a8ebfad0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <011201c48a06$469eb6e0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <016f01c48a10$f6081090$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1093392499 21033 80.91.224.253 (25 Aug 2004 00:08:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:08:19 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 25 02:08:08 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BzlKh-0002jm-00 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:08:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BzlPE-0007vS-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:12:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BzlP8-0007vC-1U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:12:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BzlP7-0007v0-BQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:12:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BzlP7-0007ux-8Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:12:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [81.228.10.115] (helo=av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BzlJu-0001mI-4O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:07:18 -0400 Original-Received: by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 636DD37E5C; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:07:17 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA7437E43; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:07:17 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from sedrcw11488 (t5o58p3.telia.com [195.67.196.3]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C20E537E45; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:07:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" , "Emacs Devel" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:26462 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:26462 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Monnier" To: "Lennart Borgman" Cc: "Emacs Devel" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Emacs Installer for MS Windows > > Ok, I believe we think the same way. What I want to do is just add some > > things to make it more easy to get started using Emacs for an ms windows > > user: > > > 1) Gnuserv is loaded > > 2) Some windows specific printing entries to the menus since printing .. > > 3) I also offer some keyboard tweaks (CUA-mode, swbuff.el tighed to C-tab) .. > > 4) recentf.el are also added, most ms windows programs has something like.. > > > If no one has a good objection I will load things from default.el then. > > I will do this by loading one file only from default.el to not clutter > > default.el. > > [ I think changes to the default should be done in Emacs proper rather than > in packages of Emacs. So I basically disagree with all those changes > since they are not intrinsically bound to your package. I might agree to > changing some of those defaults, but I think we should clearly separate > the packaging from the user-preferences. I.e. keep things as vanilla as > possible. ] I agree that the packaging and user-preferences basically should be separated. But it is also important to make a more easy road to emacs for an ms windows user. To turn on all these things above are options at the installation (except for gnuserv and the printing, see below). However I realize more clearly after your comments that I should remove some more of the things I have done. I think that gnuserv always should be installed. Since I am only using ms windows (I have never time to switch to Linux) I am not sure how it looks on other platforms. I believe I read that gnuserv is included there (or something similar). Is that correct? > - If printing doesn't work right out of the box, it should be fixed directly > in Emacs. Fixing it in your package is a bad solution. I agree. Some time ago I sent a pointer to w32-printing.el that I have uploaded to http://www.emacswiki.org/. Since I uploaded this I have realized that I want to change some things in it, but basically it contain what I believe is an easy and sufficiently good printing solution for Emacs on ms windows. It does not however have all the options that printing.el have, it is a much simpler solution. The advantage it has is that it uses the default windows printing setup. I wrote it simply because I had trouble printing to the network printers at my job from Emacs. It can print in two ways: a) Through Notepad using just "notepad.exe /p" b) Through Internet Explorer. This uses htmlize.el to color the printout. A user may want to use both this and the postscript printing. Postscript printing does not work without Ghostview which most users on ms windows does not have installed. So I believe by default this entry should be hidden on the file menu, but entries from w32-print.el should be visible. This of course however makes Emacs a little bit different on ms windows. > - I don't understand exactly what you mean by "...that they are customization > options". I mean that you can change them through "Options - Customize Emacs" in the menus. > - Assuming a user disagrees with your choice, how is she to revert > your changes in her .emacs file? See above. > let's say I start your Emacs and see "gee he turned on CUA-mode, that sucks > for me". What do I do? Normally, to turn CUA off, a user should do > (CUA-mode -1) or you use custom. Your site-start.el or default.el changes > should correctly react to either one of those things. I turn on the options just as if the user had used "Options - Customize Emacs" so I do not believe it is a problem. Please give me more feedback on these things! - Lennart